Bike Forums - Does using different diameter spokes make a difference on a rear wheel?

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- - Does using different diameter spokes make a difference on a rear wheel? (https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1253636-does-using-different-diameter-spokes-make-difference-rear-wheel.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart (Post 22546573)

I don't think Brandt said this ("should be"). "Because spokes are usually tensioned no higher than 1/3 their yield stress" (cut and paste from the link) is the reference I see. And the word "usually" is the difference I point out. Some might read this is semantics but there's a large space between should and usually. My first copy (I leant that one to a coworker to never see it again) of his book was a long time ago. Replaced by a later edition. I do agree with the end goals he tries to explain. I do take some issue with the path he choose to take to teach it. This book did set a foundation of discussion that has lasted decades, a very worthy accomplishment.

I have no issue with using 1/3 of max strength as a max wheel build tension. If the rim and nipple/rim interface can handle it. Since most spokes break from fatigue and not exceeding tensile strength, and many rim/nipple interfaces are problematic (spoke bed cracking, nipple/rim friction/corrosion) reducing the spoke tension achievable, I consider raw spoke strength to be a minor aspect. Andy

Andrew the actual strength of the rim hole possibly is a primary mitigating factor in wheel failure... spoke under very high tension subjected to extreme stress. Impacts etc... the nip gets pulled thru. Almost always when I see them 'thru' that wheel it's maxed over 140 kgf.

I went to triplet rears early on for my own 16/8's.. averaging 110/95. Always Lasers... built some 12/6's usng the triple butted Sapim Force... which are excellent spokes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kommisar (Post 22546119)

Rear wheel for a road bike. The largest tire that can fit in between the chainstays is a 700x28 so this is a smooth road only kind of bike. The rider is 100-110kg. It will be built to a 36H cs-rf3 hybrid hub. I have a truing stand, dishing tool and a spoke wrench. My tension measuring tool is a violin tuner that can detect the frequency of a plucked spoke.

I have asked about that method before and after building three wheels that i thought were perfect while i was building them, all rims ended up with cracks on the DS. I would definitely recommend buying a tensiometer.
Back to your question, maybe thinner spokes are better because they allow a more precise adjustement. It takes more turns to achieve the same tension, so it might be easier to reach a good tension uniformity.

I've only built about 25 wheels and never used different sized spokes for the NDS and had no problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidad (Post 22548266)

I've only built about 25 wheels and never used different sized spokes for the NDS and had no problems.

Whhhhhewwww...am I IMPRESSED. Amazing................ specialty that 25 count. :eek:

Butttttttttttt... if one has a MUCH bigger view of the idea/issue... there is some instances where it DO apply.

Open mind.... you. Less nonsensical typin' ... which just serves to underline your inexperience. :thumb:

Lovely.

Are you Winterrider?

You talk exactly the same mixture of gibberish and arrogance as he does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22545094)

I'm a big fan of using 1) butted spokes and 2) a gauge heavier butted for the right rear. ...Cassette wheels always go a gauge heavier...

I am with you, definitively, but the point is absolutely reasonable with hubs spoked 1:1-left:right. What do you think about tension behaviour in wheels spoked 1:2-left:right (typically 24 spokes hub equipped)? My idea, truly basic and unexperienced, is to put heavier spokes on the NDS, given that the 1:2 spokes system increases left tension of 22% (source: well known Sheldon Brown website), but offers less material to oppose to the DS, with the risk to have spokes elongations (upon dynamic forces) only on the NDS? In theory, elongation is proportional to to the spoke section. Possible solution: on NDS butted in order to keep constant tension on nipples, but heavier not to elongate too much.
I really care about your opinion, before to start my next wheel project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatInBike (Post 22580876)

Spokes "elongating too much" isn't a thing, unless you're using extremely skinny spokes on the drive side of a conventional real wheel. You'd have to deliberately make it happen.