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Upgrading a 10 speed Campagnolo drivetrain

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Upgrading a 10 speed Campagnolo drivetrain

Old 06-17-22, 05:46 PM
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Upgrading a 10 speed Campagnolo drivetrain

I have a bike with a 10 speed chorus drivetrain. The rear cassette is a 11-23 and I think I may have a 11-26 cassette at the other house. The new area that I am riding at has some harder climbs for me ( about 10%), I was thinking of ideas to lower the gearing on this bike. The crank set is a Shimano compact crank 50-34. My other bike has a compact crank but the rear cassette is a 11-32, I can climb the hills with this setup, I am also able to ride the hills in second gear 34x28, but I am not sure of riding it in a 34x26 gear.

1) I have read that the chorus derailleur with a long cage (89mm) will handle a 29 tooth large sprocket with a 39 tooth chain wrap, if this is correct I could get a 11-29 or 13-29 cassette and this should work. but I wouldn't have a bailout gear.

2) I also have read that as long as the cassette and shifter match (10 speed) that I could use a newer rear derailleur (like a 12 speed) that has a max sprocket size of 34. Then I could get a cassette with a 34 tooth sprocket and have a bailout gear.

so are both of these options correct? Or will I need to get a newer drivetrain?
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Old 06-18-22, 07:26 AM
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I have same problem. I think your rear derailleur will handle 29 easily, and most likely 30. But man that 30 Campy is hard to find in USA. Seems plenty in UK but not in USA. I just found one in Canada and it's in the way. Had I not found it, I would have gone with the 29 which is readily available.

But I have a question - you're running a Shimano crank on your Campy 10 speed? Does that work ok? I'd love to goto a 46-30 in front, but I'd need to goto Shimano, FSA, or SRAM.
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Old 06-18-22, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclist2000 View Post
I have a bike with a 10 speed chorus drivetrain. The rear cassette is a 11-23 and I think I may have a 11-26 cassette at the other house. The new area that I am riding at has some harder climbs for me ( about 10%), I was thinking of ideas to lower the gearing on this bike. The crank set is a Shimano compact crank 50-34. My other bike has a compact crank but the rear cassette is a 11-32, I can climb the hills with this setup, I am also able to ride the hills in second gear 34x28, but I am not sure of riding it in a 34x26 gear.

1) I have read that the chorus derailleur with a long cage (89mm) will handle a 29 tooth large sprocket with a 39 tooth chain wrap, if this is correct I could get a 11-29 or 13-29 cassette and this should work. but I wouldn't have a bailout gear.

2) I also have read that as long as the cassette and shifter match (10 speed) that I could use a newer rear derailleur (like a 12 speed) that has a max sprocket size of 34. Then I could get a cassette with a 34 tooth sprocket and have a bailout gear.

so are both of these options correct? Or will I need to get a newer drivetrain?
As I understand it, the difference between medium-cage and long-cage Campag 10sp RDs is chain wrap capacity. The med-cage has an official chain wrap capacity of 30, so a long-cage RD is likely well able to handle 39 chain wrap. Both med-cage and long-cage have an official max sprocket size of 29t. Iíve run a 30t big sprocket with med-cage and I bet I could go bigger, but 34t might be pushing it
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Old 06-18-22, 09:57 AM
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I have a Campagnolo Chorus for triple group with a 50x34 crankset and a 13-29 cassette. A 1X-30 cassette is feasible, but a larger cog, such as a 34, won't work with any of the 10 speed Campagnolo drivetrains.

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Old 06-18-22, 10:00 AM
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Couple years ago I got rid of the Ergo shifters on my 10 sp Chorus setup and went to Ultegra 11sp with "brifters" - 50/34 up front and 11 sp (11-32) in the back - Didn't think I'd ever leave Campy but after 19 years it was time to upgrade and Shimano is fine but I do lust once in awhile for the new Campy Super Record Gruppo .
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Old 06-18-22, 10:55 AM
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My main gearing for my campy 10 speed bikes is: 50/34, 13-29 with Campy 10 speed medium cage derailleurs.

I have one Campy 10 bike that is running 50/34, 12-32 with a Campy 10 long cage rear dr. The 12-32 is a 3rd party Campy compatible 10 spd cassette that is no longer available.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that in 2015, Campy changed the pull ratio of their rear dr, and these newer ones will not work with any system pre-2015.
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Old 06-18-22, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I have a Campagnolo Chorus for triple group with a 50x34 crankset and a 13-29 cassette. A 1X-30 cassette is feasible, but a larger cog, such as a 34, won't work with any of the 10 speed Campagnolo drivetrains.

In my second setup inquiry, I was thinking that if I used a 10 speed shifter, 10 speed cassette and a new 12 speed rear derailleur, that the 12 speed rear derailleur can take a 34 tooth max sprocket. So I am talking about mixing a 12 speed derailleur with the 10 speed drivetrain. I wasn't thinking about existing chorus derailleur with a 34 tooth sprocket.
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Old 06-18-22, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclist2000 View Post
In my second setup inquiry, I was thinking that if I used a 10 speed shifter, 10 speed cassette and a new 12 speed rear derailleur, that the 12 speed rear derailleur can take a 34 tooth max sprocket. So I am talking about mixing a 12 speed derailleur with the 10 speed drivetrain. I wasn't thinking about existing chorus derailleur with a 34 tooth sprocket.
A Campagnolo 12 speed rear derailleur will not work with a 10 speed Campagnolo shifter
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Old 06-18-22, 03:04 PM
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I use a 13-29 10sp with a short cage Chorus 10sp derailleur and it works just fine, even in the big/big combo. I have a 50/34 Chorus 10 up front too. One thing to consider is that 10sp keeps getting harder to find although I'm sure someone will counter with a listing showing them available right now. If you want a 34 though you'll need to do something else like you're thinking.
There are charts out there with shifter cable pull, derailler pull ratio and cassette spacing of all the various drivetrains. All that matters to you is that the derailleur pull ratio is the same between 10 and 12 speed. I don't know offhand. If it is the same have at it. In fact it doesn't even have to be Campy if the pull ratio is the same.
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Old 06-18-22, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
I have same problem. I think your rear derailleur will handle 29 easily, and most likely 30. But man that 30 Campy is hard to find in USA. Seems plenty in UK but not in USA. I just found one in Canada and it's in the way. Had I not found it, I would have gone with the 29 which is readily available.

But I have a question - you're running a Shimano crank on your Campy 10 speed? Does that work ok? I'd love to goto a 46-30 in front, but I'd need to goto Shimano, FSA, or SRAM.
This has been working fine for me but I have a 105 compact crank with an Ultegra FD. If you go with a 46-30 that would be a Shimano GRX 810 and you may need a GRX front derailleur, since the GRX crank set is 2.5 mm further away from the bottom bracket and the GRX FD extends out further, at least that is what I have read. I was thinking that this is one of my options. The other option is to put the Chorus triple on this bike since I have the long cage RD and if the crank is a 52-42-30 (it may be a 50-40-30) and a rear cassette of 13-29, it would be right in the CW range of 39.
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Old 06-18-22, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by blinky View Post
Couple years ago I got rid of the Ergo shifters on my 10 sp Chorus setup and went to Ultegra 11sp with "brifters" - 50/34 up front and 11 sp (11-32) in the back - Didn't think I'd ever leave Campy but after 19 years it was time to upgrade and Shimano is fine but I do lust once in awhile for the new Campy Super Record Gruppo .
I have been getting some frames here and there and building up bikes. It's fun this way and I get to know the parts pretty well. A couple of years ago I have been getting frames and using some spare parts to build the bikes. Now with the move to a new area that is a lot hillier, some of the old builds will not work well for me, also I am trying to strengthen my leg after a broken femur (the bone has healed but the muscles are still weak) and I am just getting old
.
This is on one of my favorite road bikes a Ti/carbon Serotta road bike, and I just want to ride it without putting too much more money in it. I want to save my funds, I may want to get a nice/new gravel bike in the near future.

I have bikes with different groups from Campagnolo, Shimano and now SRAM, I never intended to have so many different type of shifters since they all work a bit differently. I don't go after the Super Record or the Dura Ace because I have too many bikes and the quality of the second or third tier is almost as good as the high end stuff. But I know what you mean about lusting for the Campagnolo Super Record Gruppo.
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Old 06-19-22, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclist2000 View Post
This has been working fine for me but I have a 105 compact crank with an Ultegra FD. If you go with a 46-30 that would be a Shimano GRX 810 and you may need a GRX front derailleur, since the GRX crank set is 2.5 mm further away from the bottom bracket and the GRX FD extends out further, at least that is what I have read. I was thinking that this is one of my options. The other option is to put the Chorus triple on this bike since I have the long cage RD and if the crank is a 52-42-30 (it may be a 50-40-30) and a rear cassette of 13-29, it would be right in the CW range of 39.
This is good advice, just be aware that the chainline on the Shimano GRX cranks are optimized for disc brake bikes with 135 or 142 rear spread on the dropouts.

Nothing wrong with using a Campagnolo triple.
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Old 06-21-22, 09:52 AM
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Thanks for all the responses! They are all appreciated. I looked at the triple crank and it is 53-42-30 and I am getting a 13-29 10 speed cassette. So I will spend a couple of days removing the crank from my touring bike and putting the FSA crank back on there.
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Old 06-23-22, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by blinky View Post
Couple years ago I got rid of the Ergo shifters on my 10 sp Chorus setup and went to Ultegra 11sp with "brifters" - 50/34 up front and 11 sp (11-32) in the back - Didn't think I'd ever leave Campy but after 19 years it was time to upgrade and Shimano is fine but I do lust once in awhile for the new Campy Super Record Gruppo .
If you must use that term, understand that "brifters" refers to both Campy Ergo and Shimano STI.
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Old 06-23-22, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
If you must use that term, understand that "brifters" refers to both Campy Ergo and Shimano STI.
Correction to my earlier post , yes both systems use the brake lever to shift - a slight difference is that Ergo uses a separate lever to downshift front and back - and so I agree both systems can use the term "brifters" .

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Old 07-26-22, 04:47 PM
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Well, I got the 13-29 10 speed cassette and used it to ride my steep route yesterday and today. I did the 10% climb in the second gear 34x26, that was mashing up the hill, so I still have a bail out gear. I did bring the Chorus triple crankset that has 30 tooth granny gear, I will install the Campy crank if I feel that this hill is too hard, but right now it's working.
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Old 07-27-22, 08:45 PM
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My current setup is 50/34 Chorus in front and 13-29 Chorus 10 in back with a short cage and for NYC that is fine, even for taking trips out of the city. The 34/29 combo is low enough. That said, when I was in San Francisco a few years ago to ride, right before the pandemic hit, I rented a Roubaix with 105 50/34 in front and 11/34 11sp in back. I was surprised at how often I used that low gear, but it was hilly SF after all. I was also surprised I liked the way it shifted.

Today I took my daughter's new build out for a spin. I put a 105 crank and FD on it, and the rest was 105 9sp that I pulled off her old bike. I tweaked the shifting until it was just right on the stand, but then on the road found it was not moving down the cassette properly. I quarter turn on the adjuster made it perfect. What surprised me was how well it shifted, both front and rear. No slop, no noise. I never thought of 105 9sp as being all that good, but I understand it has improved immensely in 11sp. This was good in itself. On my daughter's old bike, the one I used to pull the parts, it never shifted well and that gets frustrating to the average cyclist. I put new Jagwire cables and housing on and maybe that made a difference, plus I shortened the housing runs up front. I thought I had it right on the stand but needed to tweak it on the road, no big deal. I was so familiar with the feel of it I knew it only needed a quarter turn. The bike is dead quiet and beautiful.
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Old 07-28-22, 09:25 AM
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I have the mythical 12-30 campy cassette. With a short cage campy derailleur it works but would not do one more tooth for sure.

If you want more than 30, youíll need a wolf tooth and I donít know if thatíll work well.

Is there an option for more than 30 teeth for a campy freehub? That seems really hard to come by.
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Old 07-28-22, 09:43 AM
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Get yourself a Shimano 10 speed RD (other than Tiagra) that will handle the cassette range you want, a rear wheel with a Shimano-compatible freehub (or, if you're lucky a free hub conversion of your current wheel), a shimano cassette of the range you want, and a JTek Shiftmate #3. Don't give up the glory that is Campy 10 Speed Shifters with Ultrashift.
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Old 07-29-22, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Get yourself a Shimano 10 speed RD (other than Tiagra) that will handle the cassette range you want, a rear wheel with a Shimano-compatible freehub (or, if you're lucky a free hub conversion of your current wheel), a shimano cassette of the range you want, and a JTek Shiftmate #3. Don't give up the glory that is Campy 10 Speed Shifters with Ultrashift.
Skip the Shiftmate. Put additional .2mm spacers between all the cogs that will take them. You will need an Ultegra cassette to do this because anything else has too many joined cogs. Also, you need an 11sp freehub because a 10sp runs out of space since you are adding about 1.4mm to an already tight space. With an 11sp freehub you put a 1mm spacer at the very rear and the .2mm spacers everywhere else they will go. The small 2 and the large 2 or 3 wont take a spacer but it'll still shift perfectly. For the .2mm spacers I used overhead projector sheets that I cut using the 1mm spacer as a template. I don't remember which part included the 1mm spacer, but I had it and a 1.8mm spacer for 9sp. Those are easier to find than the .2mm, which you have to make yourself. 11sp wheels use 131mm spacing, which is why you need the 1mm spacer since the standard is 130. I have this working on my trainer and it makes absolutely no noise and shifts perfectly. I can swap the wheel for the trainer and back without any adjustments.
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Old 09-06-22, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster View Post
Skip the Shiftmate. Put additional .2mm spacers between all the cogs that will take them. You will need an Ultegra cassette to do this because anything else has too many joined cogs. Also, you need an 11sp freehub because a 10sp runs out of space since you are adding about 1.4mm to an already tight space. With an 11sp freehub you put a 1mm spacer at the very rear and the .2mm spacers everywhere else they will go. The small 2 and the large 2 or 3 wont take a spacer but it'll still shift perfectly. For the .2mm spacers I used overhead projector sheets that I cut using the 1mm spacer as a template. I don't remember which part included the 1mm spacer, but I had it and a 1.8mm spacer for 9sp. Those are easier to find than the .2mm, which you have to make yourself. 11sp wheels use 131mm spacing, which is why you need the 1mm spacer since the standard is 130. I have this working on my trainer and it makes absolutely no noise and shifts perfectly. I can swap the wheel for the trainer and back without any adjustments.
Wow. This sounds like a bit of work. A lot of beer can shims, I guess I can start drinking beer again, lol.
I did get the 13x29 and that is working for me.
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Old 09-06-22, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cyclist2000 View Post
Wow. This sounds like a bit of work. A lot of beer can shims, I guess I can start drinking beer again, lol.
I did get the 13x29 and that is working for me.
I would stick with that then. In fact, I did! When I did the shims for my trainer it was only because there was no choice. 34/29 is plenty low for me.
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