Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Use 2mm washers for the spoke nipples inside rim?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Use 2mm washers for the spoke nipples inside rim?

Old 09-30-22, 01:10 PM
  #1  
PimpMan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Use 2mm washers for the spoke nipples inside rim?

Changing the spokes in the wheel, bought 265mm spokes instead of 264mm and they are too loose.

Now i have two options:
  1. Have spokes stick out of the spoke nipples 1-2mm into the rim which is withing spec, however i don't like this option.
  2. Use 2mm thick washers for the spoke nipples to space them away from the rim thus spokes will not come stick out into the rim.
Is option two with washers acceptable or better i find a proper size spokes?




Unlike this diagram my rims don't have recess for the spoke nipples, so its going to be 2mm above the inner wall of the rim

This is picture of my rim with 1mm spacer, if i add one more spacer spoke nipple will be even higher.


PimpMan is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 01:27 PM
  #2  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 7,908
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 844 Post(s)
Liked 461 Times in 262 Posts
Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
Changing the spokes in the wheel, bought 265mm spokes instead of 264mm and they are too loose.

Now i have two options:
  1. Have spokes stick out of the spoke nipples 1-2mm into the rim which is withing spec, however i don't like this option.
  2. Use 2mm thick washers for the spoke nipples to space them away from the rim thus spokes will not come stick out into the rim.
Is option two with washers acceptable or better i find a proper size spokes?




Unlike this diagram my rims don't have recess for the spoke nipples, so its going to be 2mm above the inner wall of the rim

This is picture of my rim with 1mm spacer, if i add one more spacer spoke nipple will be even higher.


I recommend you forget about the washers and let the spokes protrude. With a double wall rim that presents no issues but in your case the best course would be to file or Dremel the ends flush with the nipple head.
As far as worrying about bottoming out the threads check out what Bill Mould has to say about that.
After years of building and repairing wheels, I am in agreement with his conclusions.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 02:17 PM
  #3  
PimpMan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I recommend you forget about the washers and let the spokes protrude. With a double wall rim that presents no issues but in your case the best course would be to file or Dremel the ends flush with the nipple head.
As far as worrying about bottoming out the threads check out what Bill Mould has to say about that.
After years of building and repairing wheels, I am in agreement with his conclusions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Q29syv9ws
"
Seen that video before.
I also built many wheels and seen factory wheels built without spoke thread goes all the way trough the spoke nipple, never had a spoke break at the nipple in my lifetime always breaks at the hub end so i am not worried about the threads as much other than the spoke sticking out into the hub (if its single wall hub).
PimpMan is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 04:28 PM
  #4  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,998

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3693 Post(s)
Liked 2,534 Times in 1,660 Posts
I don't like the -2mm (minimum insertion scenario. Too close to popping nipple tops for me. 2mm over? Simply additional work grinding off but not an issue otherwise. I've had spokes bottom out on the nipples. Too much and I unlace and get shorter - too much work. Just a little? I've forced it on a few wheels. Brass nipples are pretty malleable. Seems to work out just fine.

Those washers - pre-bend them to fit your rim curvature or you may find them resisting your attempts at even tensions and/or many of the spokes loosening up as they bend into place. The rim strip properly covering the nipple plus washer may also be a challenge and lead to internal flats whenever they choose to happen.
79pmooney is offline  
Likes For 79pmooney:
Old 09-30-22, 09:44 PM
  #5  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,467

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4611 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 481 Times in 321 Posts
The "right" solution is spokes that are the right length, and loading tension in a way that avoids then high/low phenomenon.

That said, your approach using washers creates more problems that it solves.
1- nipples have hemsipherical (or conical) heads so they can comfortably sit at an angle to follow the line of the spokes (side to side, forward to back). You probably will have a very tough time finding washers strong enough not to split, and/or which won't induce high local stresses on the rim.
2- the taller nipple height will make it harder to protect tubes from hyperstretching at the steps each high nipple creates. It's a recipe for chronic rim side flats.
3- You'll need as much rim depth as possible to mount tires. Odds are that there simply isn't enough depth or side clearance between the tire seats, and mounting tires will be a bear (it already is on many rims).

So, back to what you don't like. Spokes that come up beyond the top of the nipple. As long is it's not enough to cause running out of thread (test a spoke and nipple off the bike), it's easily remedied with a fast pass on a narrow grinding wheel. This has been SOP for well over half a century and there were even special 8mm grinding wheels made specifically for this job.

So those are the considerations, and it's now in your hands.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Likes For FBinNY:
Old 10-01-22, 05:19 AM
  #6  
PimpMan
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
That said, your approach using washers creates more problems that it solves.
1- nipples have hemsipherical (or conical) heads so they can comfortably sit at an angle to follow the line of the spokes (side to side, forward to back). You probably will have a very tough time finding washers strong enough not to split, and/or which won't induce high local stresses on the rim.
Thanks for response.

I've tested spoke nipples without the spacers and the cheap rim does not allow any angle for the spoke nipple other tan straight angle (90 degree) to the rim, its just a hole drilled trough center of the rim, no grooves, no roundness around.
This leads me to think that it would not make any difference if i use single 1mm washers, even bending washers would not do anything as rim surface is flat.

Last edited by PimpMan; 10-01-22 at 05:22 AM.
PimpMan is offline  
Old 10-01-22, 12:31 PM
  #7  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 36,467

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4611 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 481 Times in 321 Posts
Originally Posted by PimpMan View Post
Thanks for response.

I've tested spoke nipples without the spacers and the cheap rim does not allow any angle for the spoke nipple other tan straight angle (90 degree) to the rim, its just a hole drilled trough center of the rim, no grooves, no roundness around.
This leads me to think that it would not make any difference if i use single 1mm washers, even bending washers would not do anything as rim surface is flat.
Yes, the rim does not have any pocket for the nipple head, but it does (must) have wiggle room for the nipples to be at an angle. The shape of the nipple head is designed around that. And yes, a 1mm washer is unlikely to cause a problem, but you originally spoke of 2mm.

Besides, ANY added nipple height makes mounting tires more difficult. Not an issue on many rims, but can make the difference between difficult and near impossible on others. There are plenty of threads here on BF dealing with hard to mount tires, and sometimes the solution ends up being thinner rim strips.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.