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Modern Sturmey Archer components

Old 11-07-22, 06:42 PM
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rudypyatt
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Modern Sturmey Archer components

Mods, please move if this isnít the appropriate sub forum:

I have a couple of bikes with the SA SRF3 hub that are wonderful to ride. I am thinking about a build using as many Sturmey parts as possible: Bottom bracket, crankset, front hub, rear hub, all of which they catalog.

I havenít been able to find any reviews for anything other than their geared hubs. Does anyone have any experience with current Sturmey track hubs, cranksets, or bottom brackets? Iíd appreciate any information.
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Old 11-07-22, 09:08 PM
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I have used all the above except bottom bracket. I have used a Sunrace square taper bottom bracket which I expect would be the same as one branded Sturmey Archer and it didnít last as long as should have, but the SA track hubs,crank sets and brake levers have all been good.
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Old 11-07-22, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I have used all the above except bottom bracket. I have used a Sunrace square taper bottom bracket which I expect would be the same as one branded Sturmey Archer and it didnít last as long as should have, but the SA track hubs,crank sets and brake levers have all been good.

Thanks, Dan!
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Old 11-07-22, 09:59 PM
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It is all relatively cheap but functional stuff nothing to write home about and nothing I would really spec a bike around (aside from rear hub and shifter for said hub) They are no longer the same SA from England and as Dan alluded to owned by SunRace. I guess I might also consider them if I wanted drum brakes but that hasn't been a want of mine yet.

If I were looking at track stuff, Sugino would be my top pick for cranks and BB and hubs would be All City New Sherrif SLs. Chain would be Izumi or D.I.D. and cog would be ideally EAI or Sugino.
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Old 11-07-22, 10:01 PM
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I have been eyeing the Sturmey Archer catalog and like what SunRace has done. I particularly like the some of the shifters that they have available now like a bar end. How cool is that for a internally geared hub. They continue to make drum brakes, have a new version of their DynoHub and several hubs with 3, 5 and 8 speeds. Oh, and two speeds, too.

While I am loving their catalog and their support of the old AW, there is an issue with getting these parts in the US.
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Old 11-08-22, 12:43 AM
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Flawless >> SA X-RD3, SA XL-FDD, brake levers. SA XL-RD5w is awesome for speed, but had problems with the shift key nubs catching and is wearing a ring around the axle under the planets cage. Now I'm having big trouble replacing the Krazy Grease I was using. My first dyno drum has 29,000 miles, brakes as good as new. Changing the bearings isn't too hard except needing the 34.5 mm wrench to open the side.

The problem with their cranks is you must like a 170 mm crank and small chainrings. I was using a White Ind. 180 mm crank, but now have a Suigino one 175 mm with proper 1/8" rings.

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Old 11-08-22, 09:27 AM
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Two years ago I built up an old Sports Tourer using modern SA hubs and crankset, very happy with the quality and performance.
Tim





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Old 11-08-22, 11:41 AM
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The Dawes Briercliffe has an FCS80 crank, X-RK8 rear hub and an HDS13 Dynohub™️. The Dynohub™️ replaced an HBT30-F hub in about 2016. I built this bike up in 2010 and before I retired it was my main commuting and transportation bike. Solid machine.



My Mike Melton currently has an SLS30-B bar end shifter and an FCS71 crank. (It's also sporting a pre-War AW and an early 1960s Dynohub™️.)



The Surly Disc Trucker has an X-RDC rear drum brake.



My Alex Moulton has an FCSS1 front crank. The Moulton factory fits these on some production models.

I had an RX-RF5 hub on my Dahon Curl for a few months. Great hub; weights a ton.

Good stuff; no complaints.

Last edited by tcs; 11-08-22 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 11-08-22, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
It is all relatively cheap but functional stuff nothing to write home about and nothing I would really spec a bike around (aside from rear hub and shifter for said hub) They are no longer the same SA from England and as Dan alluded to owned by SunRace. I guess I might also consider them if I wanted drum brakes but that hasn't been a want of mine yet.

If I were looking at track stuff, Sugino would be my top pick for cranks and BB and hubs would be All City New Sherrif SLs. Chain would be Izumi or D.I.D. and cog would be ideally EAI or Sugino.
Noted. All City really intrigues me, and I have only heard great things about Sugino. I have been thinking of doing something with the XRF8 hub and figured if I did that, why not go full SA? In fact, I was wondering about using a Big Block frame set as the basis for the build.
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Old 11-08-22, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rudypyatt View Post
Noted. All City really intrigues me, and I have only heard great things about Sugino. I have been thinking of doing something with the XRF8 hub and figured if I did that, why not go full SA? In fact, I was wondering about using a Big Block frame set as the basis for the build.
The Big Block is a track frame the hub you want is an 8 speed hub, not quite sure the full plan as the 120mm spacing is generally tougher for geared hubs with more than 3 gears. Maybe they make something but it seems like a tough one. Usually 130-135 is most common these days. Plus with the Big Block if it did work you wouldn't have the cable guides which may or may not be an issue but in the end wouldn't be my choice.

Sugino is excellent I have had 4 cranksets over time and running 3 currently and no complaints. The All City New Sheriff SL hubs have been great, I am a bigger rider and haven't had any issues whatsoever.
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Old 11-08-22, 01:30 PM
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Good point re the rear hub spacing. And I just checked the specs for the All City Super Professional; 142mm rear spacing, so too wide.
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Old 11-08-22, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
The Big Block is a track frame the hub you want is an 8 speed hub, not quite sure the full plan as the 120mm spacing is generally tougher for geared hubs with more than 3 gears. Maybe they make something but it seems like a tough one.


It's all the same hub shell, just a different axle length and different spacing nuts. Sheldon said you could get an XRF8 down to 116mm OLD with thinner spacers. Ya know, put the anti-rotation washers on the inside of the dropouts and that 142mm frame spacing might work with the versions with the 185mm axle.

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Old 11-08-22, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
The Dawes Briercliffe has an FCS80 crank, X-RK8 rear hub and an HDS13 Dynohubô️. The Dynohubô️ replaced an HBT30-F hub in about 2016. I built this bike up in 2010 and before I retired it was my main commuting and transportation bike. Solid machine.



My Mike Melton currently has an SLS30-B bar end shifter and an FCS71 crank. (It's also sporting a pre-War AW and an early 1960s Dynohubô️.)



The Surly Disc Trucker has an X-RDC rear drum brake.



My Alex Moulton has an FCSS1 front crank. The Moulton factory fits these on some production models.

I had an RX-RF5 hub on my Dahon Curl for a few months. Great hub; weights a ton.

Good stuff; no complaints.
Oh these look good. The Dawes is the kind of thing I have in mind, and the Melton is pretty much how my Windsor is set up (trigger shifter instead of bar end).

What cog are you running on the Dawes?
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Old 11-08-22, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post


It's all the same hub shell, just a different axle length and different spacing nuts. Sheldon said you could get an XRF8 down to 116mm OLD with thinner spacers. Ya know, put the anti-rotation washers on the inside of the dropouts and that 142mm frame spacing might work with the versions with the 185mm axle.
Ok then, cool. That changes things significantly. That is neat.
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Old 11-08-22, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Ok then, cool. That changes things significantly. That is neat.
Definitely!
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Old 11-08-22, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rudypyatt View Post
What cog are you running on the Dawes?
The Sturmey XRF8 is "all up", i.e. low gear is 1:1 and gear 8 is 3.2:1. (Fun fact: when Sturmey debuted this hub @interbike 2009, it was shown on bikes with 700C wheels...and small chainwheels!) My Dawes rolls on ISO590 (26x1 3/8) wheels. The Sturmey crank has a 30T chainwheel and my hub has the 25T sprocket. The gearing is very close to the 'alpine'* tenspeeds of the bike boom.

In 2009/2010 it was rare to find a single crank with such small tooth counts; now in 2022, with the intervening advent of 1X, 29ers and fatbikes, single cranks with tiny chainwheels are readily available. My Sturmey FCS80 has proved itself in use but f'sure isn't a pageant winner.


*52/42x14-28 & don't cross chain!

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Old 11-08-22, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
The Sturmey XRF8 is "all up", i.e. low gear is 1:1 and gear 8 is 3.2:1. (Fun fact: when Sturmey debuted this hub @interbike 2009, it was shown on bikes with 700C wheels...and small chainwheels!) My Dawes rolls on ISO590 (26x1 3/8) wheels. The Sturmey crank has a 30T chainwheel and my hub has the 25T sprocket. The gearing is very close to the 'alpine'* tenspeeds of the bike boom.

In 2009/2010 it was rare to find a single crank with such small tooth counts; now in 2022, with the intervening advent of 1X, 29ers and fatbikes, single cranks with tiny chainwheels are readily available. My Sturmey FCS80 has proved itself in use but f'sure isn't a pageant winner.


*52/42x14-28 & don't cross chain!
Ah yes. I remember you making the bike boom ten speed comparison in another thread; that's what got me interested in this hub. The old XRF5 looked good too, but I know that hub had problems. I like the fact that the XRF8 is direct in first gear, where the torque will be highest.

It looks like the FCS 600 series has replaced the FCS80 crankset and it only goes down to 33 teeth, so I would gear it 33x24, or 37 to 120 GI per the Sheldon Brown calculator. For any foreseeable riding, that's all the range I could need. My three speeds are great for riding in NYC (52" to 92"), and I could probably do a century on them, but I was thinking of trying some rides in the Hudson Valley (definitely more hilly than Brooklyn) next year and figured I needed more range while still having something good for urban riding.

Handsome Cycles almost makes what I have in mind: They have the Devil available with the Shimano Alfine 8 and flat bars. But I understand that hub doesn't have a direct 1:1 in any gear and that makes me nervous about problems under high torque situations like climbing. If I were looking to have something with a derailleur, I would of course look to Shimano. But I've had such good experiences with SA geared hubs (had an old Schwinn with an AW as well) that I'll stick with them; they have more shifter options as well, so I should be able to use drop bars more readily than with an Alfine.

So yes, I am looking to do what amounts to an IGH "ten speed". And I figure if that's the plan, go full SA.
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Old 11-08-22, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rudypyatt View Post
I like the fact that the XRF8 is direct in first gear, where the torque will be highest.
The problem with the XRF8 is that it's really designed for small-wheeled bikes - to get a good range of gears with larger wheels you have to use small chainrings with large rear sprockets and that puts higher torque through the hub, which is bad for reliability. I think the ideal bike for the XRF8 is something like a Brompton.
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Old 11-08-22, 08:21 PM
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But itís not actually designed for small wheel bikes, though thatís the common OEM application. You can use it with 700C wheels if you use a small crank. Thatís exactly what I want to do.
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Old 11-08-22, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by grumpus View Post
The problem with the XRF8 is that it's really designed for small-wheeled bikes...
Here's the brand new XRF8(W) shown at the SunRace Sturmey-Archer booth @ Interbike 2009.



I dunno - looks like a 700C wheel to me.

My XRK8 has been in service 13 years now.
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Old 11-08-22, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by grumpus View Post
The problem with the XRF8 is that it's really designed for small-wheeled bikes - to get a good range of gears with larger wheels you have to use small chainrings with large rear sprockets and that puts higher torque through the hub, which is bad for reliability. I think the ideal bike for the XRF8 is something like a Brompton.
The ultimate question really is, as you point out, the torque and what that does to reliability. Given that the highest torque is in the lowest gear, and low is direct drive, it seems things should be okay.

I guess I could try this project with another three speed (the SRF3 is a great hub, or I could find a used S3X and stick a freewheel on the driver) and just go for lighter gearing for the hills north of the city.
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Old 11-08-22, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
I dunno - looks like a 700C wheel to me.
I didn't say you couldn't use it that way, just that it will put higher stress on the drivetrain.
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Old 11-09-22, 10:25 AM
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You actually said "it's really designed for small-wheeled bikes" but clearly it was designed and the company intended it to be used on bikes of any wheel size.

I used to hear this a lot until Shimano offered a couple of 'all up' hubs (the Nexus 4 and the C7000 5-speed) and then it became a brilliant way to design an IGH. Go figure.
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Old 11-11-22, 07:34 PM
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I know SA also has the XRF4, another all-up hub. Anyone have experience with that one? Still thinking in terms of the XRF8, but the four speed is interesting.
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