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dia comp/suntour brake pad replacement?

Old 12-27-22, 07:01 PM
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dia comp/suntour brake pad replacement?

80's brake set is over due for new pads. anyone installed the 40mm length pads for dia compe's by bending the edge retainer? or do they install another way?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/20190576935...Bk9SR9Ljv-OqYQ also;is there a pad available for the suntour sprint 4000? they must be short style to clear the frame-fork.

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Old 12-27-22, 07:11 PM
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Do yourself a favor and buy some Kool Stop continentals.

Kool Stop International - High Performance Bicycle Brake Pads Since 1977
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Old 12-27-22, 08:51 PM
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Many people have pried off the CPSC required end tabs to reload the shoe w/ fresh pads. As long as you get the pad fully inserted with complete dovetail overlapping there should be no problems. This assumes you have compatible replacement pads.

The most common DC and Weinmenn pad shape has been the same for many years. Very few installs of the brakes that have these pads as OEM will foul stays or blades although on odd situations adding a spacer/washer between the caliper and frame will add more clearance. BTW these pads are pretty much considered to be short length ones by today's standards but back in the day they were considered the normal length.

The KS Continentals referenced are considered to be of the same size "family" as the imaged ones. Although they can be a tad thicker and if the rims are wide and the calipers not so there could be a bit of rub. Andy
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Old 12-28-22, 07:49 AM
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I remember that era brake pads being replaced as a complete unit with new holders and acorn nuts included, not just the insert pads as with most current rim brakes. The Kool Stop Continentals dedhed referenced are the class act of this type,
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Old 12-28-22, 08:07 AM
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Those Sprint brakes have completely different pads than the ones pictured above. No tab to bend, rounded ends.
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Old 12-28-22, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
Many people have pried off the CPSC required end tabs to reload the shoe w/ fresh pads.
Thank you for clearing up a great mystery for me. I could not figure out why the rear of the brake shoe suddenly (40 years ago) started sporting a tab so one could not easily replace the rubber pad.
The CPSC strikes again. The stuff they did for (to) bicycle stuff for such minimal gains astounds me. Just MHO!
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Old 12-28-22, 04:38 PM
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The CPSC was responsible for many changes to bikes and their parts. Some were pretty good ones, like maximum frame/fork deflection under "X" load and wheel retention designs (wing nuts disappeared and lawyer lips and tabbed ft axle washers started). Some not so much like ft der cage forward openings not extending beyond a certain amount past the cage's top (made for more difficult tweaking to the cage tips for improved shifting) and requiting chain ring guards in general.

Other actors also changed the bikes we can buy. Like the NJ liability case involving a 24" wheeled kid's MtB with QR wheels and the front QR skewer "failure" to retain the wheel. Shortly after kids bikes with QR skewers pretty much left the market.

These days the various fork impact tests that Euro and others use make steel bladed forks with traditional blade and steerer diameters few and far between in the production bike world. Some call this progress; others call it reducing options. Andy
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Old 12-28-22, 09:19 PM
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Kool-Stop KS-SBSA are the ones you want. Sold for fitting to Suntour Superbe, but Dia-Compe made all of Suntour's brakes.

I haven't installed mine yet, (Dia-Compe GC-400 calipers,) but from what I've been reading, you're likely to break off the rear tabs on the holders. Seems like a bench vice or c-clamp is the preferred tool. (They press straight, rather than on a curve like pliers do.)

There are a couple of threads on this exact topic, with step-by-step pictures.

--Shannon
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Old 12-29-22, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
The CPSC was responsible for many changes to bikes and their parts. Some were pretty good ones, like maximum frame/fork deflection under "X" load and wheel retention designs (wing nuts disappeared and lawyer lips and tabbed ft axle washers started). Some not so much like ft der cage forward openings not extending beyond a certain amount past the cage's top (made for more difficult tweaking to the cage tips for improved shifting) and requiting chain ring guards in general.

Other actors also changed the bikes we can buy. Like the NJ liability case involving a 24" wheeled kid's MtB with QR wheels and the front QR skewer "failure" to retain the wheel. Shortly after kids bikes with QR skewers pretty much left the market.

These days the various fork impact tests that Euro and others use make steel bladed forks with traditional blade and steerer diameters few and far between in the production bike world. Some call this progress; others call it reducing options. Andy
Cant forget those black 'trumpet horns' they put on the adjusting screws of Campagnolo NR/SR derailleurs.
That for sure saved a few dozen lives. /s
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Old 12-29-22, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart

These days the various fork impact tests that Euro and others use make steel bladed forks with traditional blade and steerer diameters few and far between in the production bike world. Some call this progress; others call it reducing options. Andy
Interesting. I just assumed it was because it is cheaper to produce a non threaded steerer tube. And then the mountain bike tech kind of bleeding over to the road bike sector. I did not know the traditional 1" steel road forks were not passing current testing protocols.
So I guess everybody in C&V and the rest of the world are riding ticking time bombs. /s
Ignorance is bliss, I guess!
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Old 12-29-22, 09:33 AM
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I think the fork test standards is a very good example of the MtB world bleeding over into the rest of the market. As the MtB forks got longer and longer travel, wheels got bigger and bigger in diameter and head angles slacked back the leverage acting on the steerer/crown/top of blade area has increased a lot. Add in the more forceful nature of MtB riding (compared to road riding) and it's easy to see why a stronger fork is needed. One result is that we see more frame issues at the head tube joints. So those tubes got larger and the weld lengths grew too (with hydro forming one can increase the vertical axis and also increase the weld bead lengths at the HT).

Some might speculate that there could be two testing standards, one for MtB and the other for road bikes. But any lawyer worth their weight will point out that if a company produced a road bike to that standard, and that bike somehow failed, when a stronger standard was available is negligent.

"Bliss", sure. These days I feel it is the marketing and the legal departments that control much more of what we see, than the engineering department does. Andy
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Old 12-29-22, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
I think the fork test standards is a very good example of the MtB world bleeding over into the rest of the market. As the MtB forks got longer and longer travel, wheels got bigger and bigger in diameter and head angles slacked back the leverage acting on the steerer/crown/top of blade area has increased a lot. Add in the more forceful nature of MtB riding (compared to road riding) and it's easy to see why a stronger fork is needed. One result is that we see more frame issues at the head tube joints. So those tubes got larger and the weld lengths grew too (with hydro forming one can increase the vertical axis and also increase the weld bead lengths at the HT).

Some might speculate that there could be two testing standards, one for MtB and the other for road bikes. But any lawyer worth their weight will point out that if a company produced a road bike to that standard, and that bike somehow failed, when a stronger standard was available is negligent.

"Bliss", sure. These days I feel it is the marketing and the legal departments that control much more of what we see, than the engineering department does. Andy
That all makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight.
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Old 01-03-23, 07:49 AM
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I replaced the pads on my Superbe brakes by bending the tab and it worked dandy. The only reason I didn’t use KS Continentals is because the housings are stamped “Superbe”.
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Old 01-03-23, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by HelpSingularity
T... I could not figure out why the rear of the brake shoe suddenly (40 years ago) started sporting a tab so one could not easily replace the rubber pad.
This is a good detail, to open/close the rear facing tab to replace the shoes. In a braking scenario, the pad will be forced against the front facing tab, so don't mess with the front facing tab and weaken its strength. The rear facing tab is important to retain the shoe to prevent inadvertent removal, but it's not a structural element in the braking process.
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Old 01-03-23, 11:11 AM
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I've replaced similar 1980s brake pads with Kool Stop salmon.
You can lever the tab down with a screwdriver and then put the block in a vice and push the holder off.




One thing I did do was drill a small mark on the top front of the front pad holders so I can take then off and replace them with the same edge of the pad forward.
(and similar for back pads).
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Old 01-03-23, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MudPie
This is a good detail, to open/close the rear facing tab to replace the shoes. In a braking scenario, the pad will be forced against the front facing tab, so don't mess with the front facing tab and weaken its strength. The rear facing tab is important to retain the shoe to prevent inadvertent removal, but it's not a structural element in the braking process.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of how bicycle brake shoes work. I realize now that I was a little unclear in my original post.

I was referring to these types of brake shoes found on the left brake caliper. Notice how the end is open. This is how they came for decades and then probably in the late seventies/early eighties that type of brake shoe disappeared, meaning the rear of the shoe also acquired a tab. I had always wondered why. @AndrewRStewart above explained the reason for the disappearance of these one end open brake shoes.
I don't know how big of a problem it was but over thousands and thousands of miles that I rode while I maintained my bike I never had one fall out or fail somehow. Or even heard of it back in the day.
Admittedly the old type brake shoes are not idiot proof.
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Old 01-04-23, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by HelpSingularity
Thanks for the detailed explanation of how bicycle brake shoes work. I realize now that I was a little unclear in my original post.

I don't know how big of a problem it was but over thousands and thousands of miles that I rode while I maintained my bike I never had one fall out or fail somehow. Or even heard of it back in the day. Admittedly the old type brake shoes are not idiot proof.
cheers
If that left caliper had been a rear brake, it's conceivable that the shoe could slide out upon braking. That was the (theoretical) issue. Like you said, not idiot proof--as the later holders became.

I don't know if it would help, but it might be easier to get the wheel past the shoes if the guides were placed on the inside of the caliper arms, between the arms and the brake shoes holders. Doesn't look like they're doing anything placed where they are.
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Old 01-04-23, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
I don't know if it would help, but it might be easier to get the wheel past the shoes if the guides were placed on the inside of the caliper arms, between the arms and the brake shoes holders. Doesn't look like they're doing anything placed where they are.
Wouldn't that put the pads closer to the rim and make wheel removal more difficult?
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Old 01-04-23, 02:58 PM
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update/

as others have done I used large waterpump type pliers lenghtwise on the old pads after heating with a heat gun.came out easily.then heated the new pad.slipped the lower edge in then worked the upper edge in with a small tip screw driver.used an old brake arm clamped in a vise to make it easier to apply pressure.porkchop BMX had the kool stop pads in stock-exact shape & size.



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Old 01-04-23, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
Wouldn't that put the pads closer to the rim and make wheel removal more difficult?
Those brakes look like they have quick releases. The top edges of the guide should line up with the face of the brake shoe. Otherwise they’re useless.

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Old 01-04-23, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Those brakes look like they have quick releases. The top edges of the guide should line up with the face of the brake shoe. Otherwise they’re useless.
I've always been of the opinion they're useless to most riders and leave them off.
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Old 01-04-23, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
I've always been of the opinion they're useless to most riders and leave them off.
Perhaps. Some of us find them quite useful and wouldn’t have a bike without them.
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Old 01-05-23, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
I've always been of the opinion they're useless to most riders and leave them off.
I think they just look kool.
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