ign1te

Dont waste your time on single walled rims. They belong in the trash.

sd5782 

Perhaps, but many consider them viable still. While working on my 1989 Miyata 1000LT, I was a bit surprised to see that the stock rims were single wall. That bike is considered a very durable tourer, so the single wall rims must have been good enough for them.

FBinNY 

I think that the debate about single wall rim quality lies in a false dichotomy.

We all know what hollow double wall rims are, but many can be confused about so-called single wall rims.

Some are truly single walled - Imagine a flat aluminum strip trip folded into shape, then rolled into a hoop.

However many have hollow box construction, involving 2 boxes in the corners, thoughbeing single walled in the middle. Rims with this construction, usually with pinned joints are impressively stout

So, while I'd argue against rebuilding any wheel that's still working, I wouldn't argue against reusing a pinned rim that was in good shape.

So, if it's truly a single walled rim, I wouldn't put effort into it, and decide between riding until it dies or cutting it up and reusing the hub.

sd5782 

Don’t overlook the learning experience though. It is nice to work on some less costly items when learning some of these skills.

maddog34

Sorry, i deal with real world use and experiences, not an outdated chart made by someone that uses commas in place of periods when "compiling data."

nit pick away. We all have ridden single wall rims. Many of us until the brake tracks are beginning to collapse, long nipples or not.

Bill Kapaun

No comment other than the Ignore List.

Lombard

Plenty of European countries use commas in place of decimal points.

FBinNY 

This is the problem with making broad statements based solely on personal experience. You can confirm that something exists, but have no basis for denying that. As Hamlet said, "there's more things......".

FWIW the logic for long nipples is two fold. BITD they were necessary when building wooden and/or wood filled alloy rims. However in more modern times they were used to speed lacing in high production applications.

The thread length is increased in order to reap the speed lacing benefit of long nipples. This allowed spokes to be started while the wheel was still very slack. Moreover, before CPSC in the earlier 70s, long nippls with long threads allowed shorter spokes so factories could simplify inventories, and shift error margins to the short side.

ign1te

That does not change the fact that your original statement is false. Please tell me what brand of nipples you have seen where the threaded length is the same for 12,14,16 mm. I will order some and examine them.

maddog34

rather than feeding your addiction, go measure several brands of Spokes This time., not just Sapim and DT.. but a few different brands and some locally rolled/ciut spokes too... that is what i see coming through my tiny shop... take into consideration that the Threads are NOT full depth, and that depth becomes more shallow as the end of the thread is rolled... factor in WEAR on the Dies involved... get back to me when you find that the threads are typically not capable of threading 10.5mm.without damaging the softer material of the Brass Nipples. Or, trust my assessment that Spoke threads are typically cut to 9 or 10mm, with occasional outliers. Oh, and No Thread of that size is ever cut to more than 70% depth.Both the peak and the valley is not full depth... some time on an Optical Comparator will show this clearly. you're all set up to cut a sample for viewing, right? The ragged edges really stand out under High magnification! the micro-carnage from a dull tap is Really Ugly! i pity the fool that gets stuck making nipples... must be like the 250,000+ dental tool bit collets and collet holders i've carved from raw steel... 5 operations required for each piece, starting with a cam operated swiss screw machine... ever seen one? the slotting saw tool is SPENDY! the one for the nipples is crude in comparison... one op. required the cleanup of the internal chamfer to prevent jamming on burrs...the "tool" was a tiny boring bar, looked like a bent-tipped needle. Measure away.

maddog34

go measure the THREADS on modern Spokes, Francis.. 9 to 10mm, and not full depth at the runout... and i just found one set of 32 with 8mm length. remember that the threads are Rolled. what happens when the spoke gets threaded up past the existing thread, Francis? A Mess and a stuck nipple with rounded drive surfaces. You guys are recommending that a student Wheel Builder ruin several nipples to MAYBE pick up two tiny threads in the name of "Strength". Sheesh. And here's the kicker... dude already moved on to a different wheel. :-D

funniest thing... neither one of you realized that Real World Manufacturing slop will negate any hard/fast Rules in thread lengths inside those nipples. nothing is perfect.

FBinNY 

Why? I'm not talking about spokes, I'm talking about NIPPLES. And I was simply saying that your statement that all nipples have the same thread length was false.

Moreover, I have no idea why, rather than address the specific post you quote, you seque to ranting about advice to the OP. If you bother to check, you'll see that I never advised anything except leaving things as they are.

Lastly, i didn't simply state that nipple thread varies, but explained why they would, depending on the application.

But feel free to continue ranting. I stand by my previous posts, and am happy to let them stand for themselves. Readers can draw their own conclusions.

I'm out.

ign1te

You seem unable to adress a direct question. As stated earlier, I'd like you to provide me with a source for nipples where the threaded the length is the same for 12,14,16 mm nipples. Until you can provide me with such a source, I will consider the matter closed with the argument having ended in my favour.

maddog34

go nit pick someone else, old man. and thanks for admitting that all you were doing was seeking a self proclaimed "victory" instead of actually offering any advice to the OP.
i'm sure there's a 6 spline BMX crank awaiting your panicky eyes somewhere... go find it and freak out.

4 extra threads.... yah! that'll build an indestructable wheel for an old bike that ran for decades on 4mm too short spokes... and Single Wall RIMS.

wow.

Bye Bye.

maddog34

You're just talking about anything that will get you more attention, as usual... Funny thing about Spoke Nipples... they wouldn't exist WITHOUT spokes, tend to be used as a pairing... Seek Solace elsewhere, Francis. The OP went with another old wheel instead of a re-lace.. so far.. you and Ign1te are just being pedantic old farts. Grow up already. I won't be responding to any more of your posts, Francis... they tend to be rehashes of previously stated advice, attacks on others' posts, or just plain odd ramblings with no real conclusions offered. Later, bub.

Lombard

As I see it, you are the only one attacking here. First you say the threaded section is the same length for 12, 14 and 16mm nipples, then you change your mind and say there are 4 extra threads. Which is it?