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replacing cogs on 12 speed cassette

Old 03-01-23, 09:16 PM
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replacing cogs on 12 speed cassette

i need to replace the 11t and 12t on my 12 speed cassette. i have the cogs. they have built in spacers. the cassette (literally) falls right off the rear wheel, but i haven't yet gone further than that.

the cassette is a CS-R9200, 11-34. i have the Y0MV11000 and Y0MV1200, the park tool lock-ring socket, which fits, and a cassette wrench/whip, but it's described as "5-11 speed" (venzo VZ-F33-058)

any unpleasant surprises waiting for me here? a) will the cassette wrench working on a 12 speed cassette, and b) will/should the cogs just slide right off the hub?



this certainly sounds like a dumb question, but about half the time i try and do something allegedly easy for the first time, there's a catch!
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Old 03-01-23, 09:31 PM
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If the chain whip won't fit between adjacent cogs, it looks like the largest cog may still work.
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Old 03-01-23, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
If the chain whip won't fit between adjacent cogs, it looks like the largest cog may still work.
thank you! it looks like it will.
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Old 03-01-23, 11:37 PM
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Gotta ask. Why do they need replacement?
How many miles do you have on them?

Thanks

Barry
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Old 03-01-23, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
Gotta ask. Why do they need replacement?
How many miles do you have on them?

Thanks

Barry
skipping under heavy load with new chain. abated a bit as the chain wore a tiny bit but now back in force. can pretty much make it happen at will by getting out of the saddle in the 11 or 12t.

maybe 300 miles on the current chain. around 3,000 miles on the cassette. not great but a cheap replacement, thankfully.

Last edited by mschwett; 03-01-23 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 03-01-23, 11:45 PM
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No way you blew those cogs in 3000 road miles gravel bike?
or
hanger alignment?

Barry
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Old 03-01-23, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
No way you blew those cogs in 3000 road miles gravel bike?
or
hanger alignment?

Barry
road bike. hanger is perfect, shifts perfectly, a nearly instant snick-snick, has been in the shop and checked out by people who know more than me (which is, well, almost anyone.)

unfortunately i may have run the first two chains on the bike a bit too long, and while conditions here dont seem that harsh to me i guess the combination of coastal fog, hills, and regular wind-blown sand makes even my fairly average 200-225w average output wear drivetrains more than id hope.

trying to do better with cleaning on the latest chain.
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Old 03-02-23, 06:28 AM
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Keep track of the spacers, they're different widths.
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Old 03-02-23, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC View Post
Keep track of the spacers, they're different widths.
thanks! they should be built into the little cogs, so i cant mess it up too badly, i hope!
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Old 03-02-23, 10:03 AM
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And yes, they just slide off...or obey the laws of gravity and spill themselves randomly without concern about unique spacer sizing. 😉
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Old 03-02-23, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
road bike. hanger is perfect, shifts perfectly, a nearly instant snick-snick, has been in the shop and checked out by people who know more than me (which is, well, almost anyone.)

unfortunately i may have run the first two chains on the bike a bit too long, and while conditions here dont seem that harsh to me i guess the combination of coastal fog, hills, and regular wind-blown sand makes even my fairly average 200-225w average output wear drivetrains more than id hope.

trying to do better with cleaning on the latest chain.
Are you one of those people who rides in the small chainring and the smallest cogs on the cassette? If yes, consider using the big ring and larger cogs. Slightly lower chain friction and a big reduction in chain, chain ring, and cassette cog wear.
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Old 03-02-23, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons View Post
Are you one of those people who rides in the small chainring and the smallest cogs on the cassette? If yes, consider using the big ring and larger cogs. Slightly lower chain friction and a big reduction in chain, chain ring, and cassette cog wear.
lol, no, in fact 12 speed di2 doesnt even allow that. it wont shift into the 11/12 tooth cogs when its on the little ring in the front. i do sometimes end up in big-big for a minute before adjusting, but big little, never.
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Old 03-02-23, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC View Post
And yes, they just slide off...or obey the laws of gravity and spill themselves randomly without concern about unique spacer sizing. 😉
my 1x bike with GRX had endcaps on the rear wheel which were damn difficult to get off, so imagine my surprise when the cassette on this one just fell off while i was replacing the rotors 😂😂
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Old 03-02-23, 10:57 AM
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took about 5 minutes.

chain whip/wrench worked reasonably well. made a slight ticking sound on the first few turns of the crank but seems back to normal now. stood on it a few times on the way to work and it didnt slip, but i wasnt clipped in, so well see later today.

a rare repair/maintenance which didnt present any surprises. fingers crossed.

after



before
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Old 03-02-23, 11:17 AM
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As others have said, you seem to have worn out those two sprockets exceptionally quickly. I should make sure you've got yourself a good chain lube and apply it fairly regularly. I wouldn't have expected to get through a chain in 3,000 miles, let alone a cassette. In fact, if you're careful about maintenance you shouldn't have to replace the cassette at all, unless you're doing mega mileage. I recently had to change one that had done 8,000, and that was only because I got careless with checking the chain wear. I let it get really bad and ended up having to change the small chain ring as well, which had done 14,000 miles.
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Old 03-02-23, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
As others have said, you seem to have worn out those two sprockets exceptionally quickly. I should make sure you've got yourself a good chain lube and apply it fairly regularly. I wouldn't have expected to get through a chain in 3,000 miles, let alone a cassette. In fact, if you're careful about maintenance you shouldn't have to replace the cassette at all, unless you're doing mega mileage. I recently had to change one that had done 8,000, and that was only because I got careless with checking the chain wear. I let it get really bad and ended up having to change the small chain ring as well, which had done 14,000 miles.
yes. i was definitely not pleased when the original cassette was skipping on the 11 after +/- 3,000 miles. i blamed that on letting the chain go too long - it was already a bit past .5% when i remembered to check it.

im now taking the chain off for a good scrubbing every 500 miles or so (once a month) and using the cyclone every two weeks. after every i long ride i wipe it down, which makes it look shiny but probably does nothing for the rollers and interior plate interfaces. i re-lube every 100 miles with drip wax.
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Old 03-02-23, 01:23 PM
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mschwett
congratulations on your journey into more advanced DIY maintenance.

Please do report back if the cog changes have cured your skipping issue.

Thanks and all the best

Barry
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Old 03-02-23, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
mschwett
congratulations on your journey into more advanced DIY maintenance.

Please do report back if the cog changes have cured your skipping issue.

Thanks and all the best

Barry
not particularly advanced! but it definitely worked, did a reasonably hard ride today with some powered descents in the 52x11 with no skipping.

it IS slightly noisier though, for sure. will give it a clean and lube and see where that goes.
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Old 03-02-23, 10:15 PM
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i am somewhat incredulous that the barely visible wear on this cog was causing it to skip. it was definitely skipping - basically any time i put more than 500 or 600 watts into it, and often within one pedal stroke of standing on it. it doesn't skip now.

but here are the two cogs, left is new one, right is old one, middle is old one with profile of new one overlaid. taken with 105mm macro lens and full frame 45mp camera, on tripod. almost exactly 3,000 miles of use. 185lb rider.

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Old 03-02-23, 10:58 PM
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Personally, I think you should replace your entire cassette then give me the old worn one.
Im pretty sure I can run it for many more thousands of miles.

Great pictures BTW, but not exactly worn is it.
Sorry to say, but I think you have an issue and its not worn cogs.

Have you actually checked hanger alignment with the correct tool?

Barry
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Old 03-03-23, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
Personally, I think you should replace your entire cassette then give me the old worn one.
Im pretty sure I can run it for many more thousands of miles.

Great pictures BTW, but not exactly worn is it.
Sorry to say, but I think you have an issue and its not worn cogs.

Have you actually checked hanger alignment with the correct tool?

Barry
you know, thats exactly what the shop said - youre due for a new cassette!

they also couldnt get the small cogs individually.

three possibilities at this point i suppose - 1) it was actually worn enough to cause skipping, its just not easy to see visually. it is fixed, after all. 2) the problem is totally unrelated and its random chance that it hasnt skipped since changing the cogs. 3) there is/was another problem that was slightly alleviated or modified by taking the wheel off, removing the lockring, taking the two small cogs off, and then putting back together.

i do not have a hanger alignment tool. it certainly looks perfectly aligned but that may not mean much.
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Old 03-03-23, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
i do not have a hanger alignment tool. it certainly looks perfectly aligned but that may not mean much.
I believe the Shimano spec is about 1/8" at the wheel rim.
You can't eyeball that.

Given Di2, skipping and drivetrain noise on such a young cassette, it would be the first thing i'd check.

All it takes to upset alignment is to have your bike topple over on the righthand side.

Barry
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Old 03-04-23, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
took about 5 minutes.

chain whip/wrench worked reasonably well. made a slight ticking sound on the first few turns of the crank but seems back to normal now. stood on it a few times on the way to work and it didnt slip, but i wasnt clipped in, so well see later today.

a rare repair/maintenance which didnt present any surprises. fingers crossed.

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Get a New Cassette.. wow.
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Old 03-04-23, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34 View Post
Get a New Cassette.. wow.
not following wow, that cassette is dirty or wow, i cant believe your LBS said you needed a new one?
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Old 03-04-23, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
not following wow, that cassette is dirty or wow, i cant believe your LBS said you needed a new one?
Get a New Cassette.
SEVERAL badly worn teeth can be seen in the pics...a lot of the wear is directly attributable to running worn out chains, IMO.
No, i won't bother pointing out each badly worn tooth.
i hope you didn't waste very much money on the two cogs that show minimal wear..... keep the new cogs as spares in case you break one... 11s are known to break on occasion..
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