Opinion on Dodgy Head Tube Cut
03-16-23, 07:08 AM
#76
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I've gone into my shop experience before. How about you? Care to provide details? Years? Shop names?
03-16-23, 07:23 AM
#77
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Turin Bicycles 1991
RRB Cycles 1995-1996
Some other Madison shop 2008
Cronometro 2011-2014 Service Manager
Metier Racing 2019-2022 Service Manager and fitter
Last edited by Kontact; 03-16-23 at 07:45 AM.
03-16-23, 07:33 AM
#78
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IMO, the entire cutting out a headset theory makes no sense, nor does comparing it to seatpost
Seatposts have plenty of surface area for potential binding, compared to the 10-15mm depth of a head cup.
Also sestposts are pulled from the blind side, vs. headsets which are easily pushed from the bottom.
Lastly, this is an aluminum frame, so galvanic corrosion isn't likely, nor does any evidence of it show in the photo.
Of course ANYTHING is possible, and we'll never know.
So why waste so much time on it.
‐‐-----------'
A last thought offered for whatever it may be worth.
In my 50 years working with all sorts of mechanics, in various contexts, I've found that those most boastful of their skills and credentials are usually the ones on the shakiest ground.
Seatposts have plenty of surface area for potential binding, compared to the 10-15mm depth of a head cup.
Also sestposts are pulled from the blind side, vs. headsets which are easily pushed from the bottom.
Lastly, this is an aluminum frame, so galvanic corrosion isn't likely, nor does any evidence of it show in the photo.
Of course ANYTHING is possible, and we'll never know.
So why waste so much time on it.
‐‐-----------'
A last thought offered for whatever it may be worth.
In my 50 years working with all sorts of mechanics, in various contexts, I've found that those most boastful of their skills and credentials are usually the ones on the shakiest ground.
03-16-23, 07:53 AM
#79
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IMO, the entire cutting out a headset theory makes no sense, nor does comparing it to seatpost
Seatposts have plenty of surface area for potential binding, compared to the 10-15mm depth of a head cup.
Also sestposts are pulled from the blind side, vs. headsets which are easily pushed from the bottom.
Lastly, this is an aluminum frame, so galvanic corrosion isn't likely, nor does any evidence of it show in the photo.
Of course ANYTHING is possible, and we'll never know.
So why waste so much time on it.
‐‐-----------'
A last thought offered for whatever it may be worth.
In my 50 years working with all sorts of mechanics, in various contexts, I've found that those most boastful of their skills and credentials are usually the ones on the shakiest ground.
Seatposts have plenty of surface area for potential binding, compared to the 10-15mm depth of a head cup.
Also sestposts are pulled from the blind side, vs. headsets which are easily pushed from the bottom.
Lastly, this is an aluminum frame, so galvanic corrosion isn't likely, nor does any evidence of it show in the photo.
Of course ANYTHING is possible, and we'll never know.
So why waste so much time on it.
‐‐-----------'
A last thought offered for whatever it may be worth.
In my 50 years working with all sorts of mechanics, in various contexts, I've found that those most boastful of their skills and credentials are usually the ones on the shakiest ground.
I didn't boast. He asked. But it seems to keep coming up because of the incredibly bonehead discourse offered by 'mechanics' on this subforum. Some of the most ridiculous being:
The competing theory is that Colnago made one and only one aluminum frame with a special off-center slot in the headtube that they painted only the bottom but not the sides.
I don't know what happened for sure. But this looks exactly like what happens when someone tries to cut something with an outside corner that obscures the underlying part and they get tunnel vision on trying to get the cut all the way through. So that's why I mentioned what I think it is.
If anyone has photos of another Colnago made this way, please speak up.
03-16-23, 08:08 AM
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03-16-23, 08:30 AM
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Besides, the differences in engaged surfaces, ie 10-15mm vs 60+mm for seatposts and the ease of knocking out from the bottom argue against the likelihood of sawing to remove.
I have no competing theory except that it was either intentional or accidental.
Early on, I offered a fix. That's how I deal with stuff like this. I focus on solving the problem, and leave fanciful theories on who might have done what to others.
Sometimes, I do explore questions of how stuff goes wrong, either out of intellectual curiosity, or if I think there's a benefit in knowing.
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“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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03-16-23, 08:39 AM
#82
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03-16-23, 09:14 AM
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Because, unlike the raw steel of a seat tube, steel headsets tend to be chrome plated.
Besides, the differences in engaged surfaces, ie 10-15mm vs 60+mm for seatposts and the ease of knocking out from the bottom argue against the likelihood of sawing to remove.
I have no competing theory except that it was either intentional or accidental.
Early on, I offered a fix. That's how I deal with stuff like this. I focus on solving the problem, and leave fanciful theories on who might have done what to others.
Sometimes, I do explore questions of how stuff goes wrong, either out of intellectual curiosity, or if I think there's a benefit in knowing.
Besides, the differences in engaged surfaces, ie 10-15mm vs 60+mm for seatposts and the ease of knocking out from the bottom argue against the likelihood of sawing to remove.
I have no competing theory except that it was either intentional or accidental.
Early on, I offered a fix. That's how I deal with stuff like this. I focus on solving the problem, and leave fanciful theories on who might have done what to others.
Sometimes, I do explore questions of how stuff goes wrong, either out of intellectual curiosity, or if I think there's a benefit in knowing.
Whoever cut this headtube screwed up. I have no idea how stuck the cup really was and if the mechanic's judgement to cut it was reasonable. I just recognize the kind of tool marks that kind of cut leaves if you don't pay attention.
03-19-23, 09:15 AM
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Um… steel? And your point is?
You have no point. Your theory is mostly preposterous. Your lack of logical thought is striking.
Sounds like you once tried to remove a headset race by cutting it out yourself, inflicted similar damage, and are now trying to justify or rationalize it.
I reiterate: I wouldn’t trust you to do anything mechanical on my bike. Not even removing my valve stem caps.
Don’t you have some ugly saddles to sell?
You have no point. Your theory is mostly preposterous. Your lack of logical thought is striking.
Sounds like you once tried to remove a headset race by cutting it out yourself, inflicted similar damage, and are now trying to justify or rationalize it.
I reiterate: I wouldn’t trust you to do anything mechanical on my bike. Not even removing my valve stem caps.
Don’t you have some ugly saddles to sell?
Last edited by smd4; 03-19-23 at 09:38 AM.
03-19-23, 10:28 AM
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Um… steel? And your point is?
You have no point. Your theory is mostly preposterous. Your lack of logical thought is striking.
Sounds like you once tried to remove a headset race by cutting it out yourself, inflicted similar damage, and are now trying to justify or rationalize it.
I reiterate: I wouldn’t trust you to do anything mechanical on my bike. Not even removing my valve stem caps.
Don’t you have some ugly saddles to sell?
You have no point. Your theory is mostly preposterous. Your lack of logical thought is striking.
Sounds like you once tried to remove a headset race by cutting it out yourself, inflicted similar damage, and are now trying to justify or rationalize it.
I reiterate: I wouldn’t trust you to do anything mechanical on my bike. Not even removing my valve stem caps.
Don’t you have some ugly saddles to sell?
03-19-23, 10:31 AM
#90
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You did damage a frame in that way, didn’t you?
Last edited by smd4; 03-19-23 at 10:34 AM.
03-19-23, 10:37 AM
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Never. But I have supervised many young mechanics that would have if I hadn't stopped them - like yourself. Like you, they thought their limited exposure to some aspects of bike mechanics warranted confidence in their own skills and knowledge. And then they cross thread something, cut a steerer too low, crush a carbon steerer, etc when no one is looking.
Maybe you never got past changing flats and putting jerseys on hangers, so you didn't have the opportunity to destroy anything with your limited "skills". Dunno.
Maybe you never got past changing flats and putting jerseys on hangers, so you didn't have the opportunity to destroy anything with your limited "skills". Dunno.
03-19-23, 11:33 AM
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Never. But I have supervised many young mechanics that would have if I hadn't stopped them - like yourself. Like you, they thought their limited exposure to some aspects of bike mechanics warranted confidence in their own skills and knowledge. And then they cross thread something, cut a steerer too low, crush a carbon steerer, etc when no one is looking.
Maybe you never got past changing flats and putting jerseys on hangers, so you didn't have the opportunity to destroy anything with your limited "skills". Dunno.
Maybe you never got past changing flats and putting jerseys on hangers, so you didn't have the opportunity to destroy anything with your limited "skills". Dunno.
03-19-23, 11:54 AM
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Yup. And since you persist in doing it, I might as well put you on the receiving end.
The difference between a good mechanic and a bad one is knowing what you don't know. Despite both FBinNY and myself referring to a steel pressed in race, you open your pie hole and inform the world that you KNOW upper headet races are always aluminum. You didn't look it up or think.
I don't use valve caps, but it looks 50/50 that you could remove some for me without stripping them out.
The difference between a good mechanic and a bad one is knowing what you don't know. Despite both FBinNY and myself referring to a steel pressed in race, you open your pie hole and inform the world that you KNOW upper headet races are always aluminum. You didn't look it up or think.
I don't use valve caps, but it looks 50/50 that you could remove some for me without stripping them out.
03-19-23, 12:35 PM
#94
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Yup. And since you persist in doing it, I might as well put you on the receiving end.
The difference between a good mechanic and a bad one is knowing what you don't know. Despite both FBinNY and myself referring to a steel pressed in race, you open your pie hole and inform the world that you KNOW upper headet races are always aluminum. You didn't look it up or think.
I don't use valve caps, but it looks 50/50 that you could remove some for me without stripping them out.
The difference between a good mechanic and a bad one is knowing what you don't know. Despite both FBinNY and myself referring to a steel pressed in race, you open your pie hole and inform the world that you KNOW upper headet races are always aluminum. You didn't look it up or think.
I don't use valve caps, but it looks 50/50 that you could remove some for me without stripping them out.
You sure like misreading my writing and then misstating it to fit your arguments! Are you trying to get banned from this forum too?
03-19-23, 12:50 PM
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You have two personal attacks just in this post. I'm not angry - you are a symptom, not a person of any importance. But you and your kind make it so much harder for people interested in bicycles to have discussions about bicycles. I don't know why I should tolerate your personal attacks and the way you dumb down something I enjoy.
Do you realize that you have posted 21 times in this thread, 14 of which were attempts to negate something I've said, and the rest to agree with someone else? You contributed nothing at all.
Last edited by Kontact; 03-19-23 at 01:00 PM.
03-19-23, 01:51 PM
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HA! And yet...
Apparently, I'm important enough for you to go back over a four-page thread and not only count up my posts but analyze their content! Well-done!
And my goodness...I hope you don't react this way to everyone who "attempts to negate" something you've said!
And my goodness...I hope you don't react this way to everyone who "attempts to negate" something you've said!
03-19-23, 01:57 PM
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You aren't a knowledgeable person. You are a troll. Pointing out how you're a troll might help inoculate this subforum against your type of behavior and make people like you shut up more. No one is coming to your defense.
