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Sturmy Archer 2spd Kickback Rebuild

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Sturmy Archer 2spd Kickback Rebuild

Old 03-12-23, 03:19 PM
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Sturmy Archer 2spd Kickback Rebuild

My SA 2spd has gotten noisy- in the work stands anyway.
I’ve found a Park Tool video and exploded assembly diagram.

I’ve had my coaster brake hub apart & repacked with heavy grease.

For this hub I’m thinking I need to use more like a gear oil. I’ve got an old-ish container of differential oil.

Before I open this victim- I mean patient, is gear oil what I need? Something else all together?

Any warnings? Cautionary tales?

I’m thinking I remove from the hub shell. Clean with brake clean or some kind of clean drying electronics solvent. Let it dry out. Then coat everything with gear oil. Reassemble all the parts I don’t lose.
thanks




https://www.sturmey-archer.com/files...20-%20TS2C.pdf


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Old 03-12-23, 05:31 PM
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Yes, these hubs are "splash" lubricated. They call for oil which circulates like the action of front loading washing machines.

Gear oil, or any non-detergent machine (not motor) oils is fine.

The advice to avoid motor oil is because som we IGH hubs use permanent bonded lubes which can react with additives on motor oils. If you know its not an issue, then 20-30 weight motor oil is fine.
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Old 03-12-23, 09:24 PM
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It's sort of a given here on BikeForums that folks will use anything but the factory lubrication in Sturmey-Archer IGHs.

Since 1984 S-A IGHs have been lubricated at the factories with NLGI #00 semi-fluid grease. S-A sells some under their part number and references a commercial brand, but really any NLGI #00 semi-fluid grease meets spec and will do.

Here's the one, the only, Aaron Goss starring in the official factory S-A video of taking apart and reassembling the S-A A2 hub.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...S3LtQUkpwQ50TP

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Old 03-13-23, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
It's sort of a given here on BikeForums that folks will use anything but the factory lubrication in Sturmey-Archer IGHs.
haha! True! I think my wife just brought home a new jar of peanut butter, I should be good to go!

Thanks for the lubricant info and the video links. I'll check those out.
- looking at the S-A website, I see no lubricants sold at all. In the S-A assembly drawing for the hub, no lubricant is listed. Looking at Universal Cycles, I don't see a S-A lubricant for sale either.
I'll take a better look around the interwebs later today.
Thanks again!
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Old 03-13-23, 07:01 AM
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For my newer SA hubs (without oil ports), I use NGLI 00 grease. It's sort of like a thick sticky oil. For the axle bearings I use regular grease. I've heard of some folks drilling the shell for an oil port to convert to oil lube, but I can't see that that will improve performance.

The S2 hubs are pretty simple to work on. I've had one on various bikes for many years and really like their simplicity. The only problem I've had with them is that an internal lock nut pair would separate causing the hub to stay in high. A bit of tightening and thread locker solved this.

I use a brass rod and hammer to loosen the ball ring. The brass will not damage the slots in the ring.
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Old 03-13-23, 10:21 AM
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Sturmey's branded grease is SA103A, part number HMA106



IIRC this is just repackaged Castrol NLGI #00. You can often find an NLGI #00 in lawnmower shops - this semi-fluid grease is used in string trimmer gearboxes. I have a tube of Super S brand NLGI #00 "meets John Deere Cotton Picker Spindle lubrication specifications" I found at Tractor Supply. The Sturmey-heads in the UK are fond of an NLGI #00 they get from Land Rover dealers.

NLGI #00 under pressure flows and wicks like oil, but unlike oil, it's not terribly prone to leaking out.




Ah, but to clarify, this light grease is for the internal mech - the bearings and labyrinth seals use an NLGI #2. Sturmey calls theirs SA103B. Sturmey aesthetes are prone to choosing a hydrophobic NLGI #2 (boat trailer axle bearing grease) like Sta-Lube Marine Grease or Fuchs Renolit CA-LZ.



But like I said, this is just how the factory does it. Folks use all kinds of lubricants on these hubs, from the thoughtfully considered to the crackpot, and the hubs mostly remain calm and carry on.


Fun fact: after the War, when things were in short supply and rationed, Sturmey officially said one could lubricate their hub with sewing machine oil and pack the bearings and seals with Vaseline!

Last edited by tcs; 03-14-23 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-13-23, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Sturmey's branded grease is SA103A, part number HMA106

IIRC this is just repackaged Castrol NLGI #00. You can often find an NLGI #00 in lawnmower shops - this semi-fluid grease is used in string trimmer gearboxes. I have a tube of Super S brand NLGI #00 "meets John Deere Cotton Picker Spindle lubrication specifications" I found at Tractor Supply. The Sturmey-heads in the UK are fond of an NLGI #00 they get from Land Rover dealers.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...ndle-grease-00

TSC it is! They got it in stock and everything. Can't find the S-A branded stuff. Amazon and Google keep puking up results, but it looks more like heavy grease.

Thanks!
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Old 03-13-23, 04:11 PM
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Theoretically, NGLI #00 is available in 9oz tubes, a more appropriate quantity for our purposes. Haven't found a place to source it yet, though.

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Old 03-19-23, 02:32 PM
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Lefty-Losey?

Attempting to remove the bearing ring.
It’s this reverse threaded?
Anybody want to rent me the correct spanner?

I’m not making progress being careful with the incorrect tools….



Righty-Tighty!!

here it is - got it:

Last edited by mrv; 03-19-23 at 03:50 PM. Reason: nevermind
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Old 03-19-23, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
Attempting to remove the bearing ring.
It’s this reverse threaded?
Anybody want to rent me the correct spanner?

I’m not making progress being careful with the incorrect tools….
This is the tool you need. I got it from BikeToolsEtc.com. It wasn't in the on-line catalog; I sent an email explaining what I needed, and they sent this:
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Old 03-19-23, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
Attempting to remove the bearing ring.
It’s this reverse threaded?
Anybody want to rent me the correct spanner?

I’m not making progress being careful with the incorrect tools….



Righty-Tighty!!

here it is - got it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUCKfwk32tI
In lieu of the correct tool, a brass punch and hammer works to loosen the ball ring. Brass is preferable to steel because it will not mar the ring, and the tip will deform slightly to gain better purchase on the lip of the scalloped notches. Right hand thread. so lefty loosy.
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Old 03-20-23, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
In lieu of the correct tool, a brass punch and hammer works to loosen the ball ring. Brass is preferable to steel because it will not mar the ring, and the tip will deform slightly to gain better purchase on the lip of the scalloped notches. Right hand thread. so lefty loosy.
Right - I saw that in an earlier post - much appreciated - I have it a "whack" - many whacks, some with enthusiasm. But, as the kids say, "No joy in Mudville.." If my LBS can't do a tool rental, I'll try again. I might buy a tool if I can keep it under $30.
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Old 03-20-23, 08:33 AM
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Sturmey-Archer S2:



The official tool is the HTR145 Ball Ring Spanner.
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Old 03-20-23, 08:40 AM
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Sturmey's tools - collect the whole set!

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Old 03-20-23, 08:41 AM
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When you're finished, get a sign to hang over your workbench:




Last edited by tcs; 03-20-23 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 03-20-23, 08:47 AM
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I saw this homemade Sturmey hub shell holder (for use with a big vice) on the net:



The larger slot is for oil port clearance (your modern S2 won't have an oil port).
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Old 03-20-23, 09:05 AM
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The S-A ball ring is a two-start thread. Sturmey lore suggests marking the ball ring (with a grease pencil or a pair of automatic center punch dings or somethin') prior to removal so you restart on the same thread. I haven't had any coffee and can't remember why - Dan will know.
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Old 03-20-23, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
When you're finished, get a sign to hang over your workbench:



.... becoming my early retirement plan. I'll be the Pastor Bob of S-A Refurbishment.
Maybe he'll let me make it a sub-page..... https://www.freewheelspa.com/
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Old 03-20-23, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
The S-A ball ring is a two-start thread. Sturmey lore suggests marking the ball ring (with a grease pencil or a pair of automatic center punch dings or somethin') prior to removal so you restart on the same thread. I haven't had any coffee and can't remember why - Dan will know.
possibly some alignment with the engagement. I'll make note of it.... assuming I get this ring out!
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Old 04-30-23, 11:49 AM
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Finally got back‘round to it

Forgot to do the paint mark thing for the ring. This meant taking it back apart and remembering I was so supposed to mark the ring - hub to align things.
Second try got it.

time for a test ride.



Mostly apart. But not all the way.

Didn’t remove these bearings.

Probably could have pried them out.
some fresh ish grease from when I had it apart couple weeks ago.


Back together. Yeeeaaaa….
Had to order the wrench from a British site that shipped it from Taiwan.
—- Taiwan is a country!!
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Old 04-30-23, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by mrv;[url=tel:22834963
22834963]possibly some alignment with the engagement. I'll make note of it.... assuming I get this ring out!
the alignment is for properly getting the cones & bearings set. With the wrong threads started, I could not get the cones tight enough to see the hub play. The axle was loose.
Starting on the correct thread allows fine adjustment between no play and a micro smidge of play.
—- at least that was the problem I ran into!!!
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Old 04-30-23, 01:38 PM
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fail

My headwind gear won’t engage. It’ll click and knock a bit. Gotta use the tailwind gear.
I’m suspecting I screwed up kind of a flat spring plate deal on the NDS.
so all the way apart. Maybe heavy bearing grease got where I should not have it.
nuts

PS - is there some kind of BF support group for people who attempt lots of wrenching but refuses to recognize they might suck at it?

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Old 05-02-23, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
The S-A ball ring is a two-start thread. Sturmey lore suggests marking the ball ring (with a grease pencil or a pair of automatic center punch dings or somethin') prior to removal so you restart on the same thread. I haven't had any coffee and can't remember why

"Some instructions for disassembling Sturmey-Archer gears include a mysterious statement such as this:
“Next, unscrew the right-hand ball ring but because it has a two-start thread and must be replaced in its original position, that position must be marked. String or adhesive tape may be attached to the spoke nearest to the letters ‘SA’ which are stamped in one of the notches on the ring.” (From the 1956 Master Catalogue, sub-section 4, page 15, paragraph 1.)
"The reason for replacing the right-hand ball ring in the same position is as follows. If the ring is screwed back in the alternative position, 180 degrees out from its original position, there could be some slight distortion of the completed assembly, due to a very slight difference of alignment between the hub shell and the ball ring. Whilst not noticeable at the hub end, it can result in the rim being slightly out of true. (The longer the spokes, the more the discrepancy is amplified.) So the precaution is in order to avoid the possible need to re-true the wheel.
"This matter is not well documented but the rare 1992 Sutherland’s Handbook of Coaster Brakes and Internally Geared Hubs makes the point clearly. To facilitate correct re-assembly, Sutherland’s advises marking the ball ring at the point nearest the lubricator, rather than attaching tape or string to a spoke.
"The reason for the two-start thread is to facilitate screwing the ball ring in relatively quickly, while having a stronger mechanical connection than an equally fast single-start thread would offer. For a given screw pitch, a two-start thread will screw in twice as fast as a single-start thread."
Tony Hadland



IIRC, some internet hub gear guru said they'd never paid any attention to this and it had never been a problem.
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Old 05-02-23, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
I saw this homemade Sturmey hub shell holder (for use with a big vice) on the net...
Dimensioned drawings:

https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/...mping_tool.pdf
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