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Ghetto tubeless with no rimstrip?

Old 03-21-23, 09:23 PM
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Ghetto tubeless with no rimstrip?

I just set up a 29er wheel tubeless, 'ghetto-style', i.e. split tube instead of stans tape. But then I discovered at the bottom of the wheel's shipping box, the vinyl rimstrip. I got nothing between my split-tube liner, and the spokeheads.

It's sitting there comfortably at 40psi, curing with sealant.

If I start riding it, are the spoke heads going to cut through the tube like they would with an inflated tube?

Or, is it the case that the forces that would normally cause an inflated tube to squirm against the spokeheads are absent, and since the tube is held firmly in place between the bead and rim, it will never move against the spokeheads and so they will never rub/cut/abrade through?

If the tube does get cut, will sealant handle it?
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Old 03-21-23, 09:31 PM
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Old 03-21-23, 09:48 PM
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Old 03-21-23, 09:59 PM
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I wouldn't trust it. And the sealant is unlikely to flow uphill to the rim bed.

Seems like a painful experiment to inflict on yourself.
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Old 03-21-23, 10:06 PM
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Unless it is a single wall rim the spoke heads are of no concern at all. The bigger issue is that the tube is being pushed into the spokes holes of the rim and the edges of those holes are sharp enough to cut a tube. Considering that even mtb wheels run at 30psi require a rim strip between the tube and the rim to prevent the tube from puncturing on the rim I would suspect there's nothing of your setup that wouldn't have the same result. The pressure will force the tube into the hole until it punctures.
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Old 03-21-23, 10:59 PM
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ok thx for the advice. The rim is WTB i30, so yeah probably spoke holes not heads. It will be running at more like 20psi than 30, and could probably get away with 15 (2.5" maxxis ardent tires are pretty wide and this is a front)
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Old 03-22-23, 05:40 AM
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Is there a supply problem with tubeless tape?
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Old 03-22-23, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
Unless it is a single wall rim the spoke heads are of no concern at all. The bigger issue is that the tube is being pushed into the spokes holes of the rim and the edges of those holes are sharp enough to cut a tube. Considering that even mtb wheels run at 30psi require a rim strip between the tube and the rim to prevent the tube from puncturing on the rim I would suspect there's nothing of your setup that wouldn't have the same result. The pressure will force the tube into the hole until it punctures.
I would bet that if you took off the tube now you would see serious bulges at every spoke hole. A flat waiting to happen. Take it off and put in the tape.
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Old 03-22-23, 09:15 AM
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Is there a supply problem with tubeless tape?
The only problem is I'm not willing to buy it. Plus split tube makes it easier to seal up, because the tube is so thick. It "can't" go wrong ​​​​​​​

If I knew the non-Stan's-branded 3M equivalent I would be interested in buying a roll at commodity tape prices
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Old 03-22-23, 09:24 AM
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People use Kapton tape but I found it fiddly, tended to stick to itself and crumple.
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Old 03-22-23, 09:38 AM
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Yeah I tried the Krapton too, also found it to be wrinkly and difficult. Also tried gorilla tape. I know a guy that had success with just regular duct tape (decorative to show the the holes of his Rabbit Hole rims on his Krampus, so probably not the highest quality either).

lol I've probably spent more on other tapes than just Stan's. Penny-wise, pound-foolish. But I'm happy with split-tube.

I also homebrew my sealant. Cheap antifreeze, liquid latex, ammonia, I forget what else. $10 for a 1L tub of liquid latex is the cost driver, and I can make about 2L of sealant for maybe $13.

The tire was still sitting at a hard 40 this morning, with a couple spots of sidewall sealant weeping. I dropped it to 20. I guess though I'll take it all apart later and get that rimstrip in. I wonder if I can break just one bead, pull the valve out, slip the rimstrip under, and maintain enough of the tube-to-bead contact (glued together with sealant) to pump it back up without a compressor (which I don't have, I'd rather not bring the wheel into work again)
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Old 03-22-23, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
The only problem is I'm not willing to buy it. Plus split tube makes it easier to seal up, because the tube is so thick. It "can't" go wrong

If I knew the non-Stan's-branded 3M equivalent I would be interested in buying a roll at commodity tape prices
Gorilla clear tape is $6 a roll and one roll will do at least 4 wheels. It makes for a rock solid tubeless rim tape. The issues with gorilla clear tape are 1) you might have to cut it down (narrow it), 2) it's fairly difficult to remove.
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Old 03-22-23, 11:04 AM
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I think when gorilla clear didn't work for me, it's because I didn't understand you're supposed to (?) tape all the way up into the bead channel, to be forced into place by the bead. I cut it thinner to try to basically cover the spoke holes, and it slipped, or sealant seeped under and loosened the adhesion or I don't know what.
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Old 03-22-23, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I think when gorilla clear didn't work for me, it's because I didn't understand you're supposed to (?) tape all the way up into the bead channel, to be forced into place by the bead. I cut it thinner to try to basically cover the spoke holes, and it slipped, or sealant seeped under and loosened the adhesion or I don't know what.
Yeah the tire bead should be sitting on top of the tape. Wrinkles at the edge of the tape are bad. I taped my wheels with the wheels mounted on the bike, bike either upside down or in a stand.
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Old 03-22-23, 12:12 PM
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did you trim the tape after application, just run a boxcutter around the rim? Or did you try to size it down first?
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Old 03-22-23, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
did you trim the tape after application, just run a boxcutter around the rim? Or did you try to size it down first?
I cut it down first. Figured out the width I needed, then made a little rig that held an exacto knife at that distance off the table, then rotated the whole roll of tape across the exacto knife a number of times.
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Old 03-22-23, 02:33 PM
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OP did say "tubeless" didn't he? Why are some talking about tubes?

Though I guess maybe they might be talking about the rubber strip that the OP made from a tube.
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Old 03-22-23, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
The only problem is I'm not willing to buy it. Plus split tube makes it easier to seal up, because the tube is so thick. It "can't" go wrong

If I knew the non-Stan's-branded 3M equivalent I would be interested in buying a roll at commodity tape prices
8898 works pretty well
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Old 03-22-23, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
OP did say "tubeless" didn't he? Why are some talking about tubes?

Though I guess maybe they might be talking about the rubber strip that the OP made from a tube.
that's what I'm talkin bout
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Old 03-22-23, 05:58 PM
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I despise the term "ghetto tubeless."

For a little perspective, Stan's NoTubes became the first widely available alternative to the UST tubeless system for mountain bikes. UST, in its original form, was expensive, relatively heavy, had limited tire options, and was not very good at actually holding air in a tubeless tire. And without sealant, as it was originally designed, other than eliminating the possibility of pinching an inner tube, UST did nothing for flat prevention in the case of punctures. The earliest Stan's "tubeless conversion kits" were touted for using normal rims and tires, resulting in lighter weight than even the same rims and tires with inner tubes in them, and of course the ability to run much lower air pressure with much less chance of flats because of no inner tubes to pinch and the sealant taking care of small punctures.

The true, mainstream evolution of running tubeless bicycle tires had begun, and Stan's products became a hit in a very short period of time. Because they worked better, and were incidentally less expensive than UST.

But no one pretended that this less expensive and more effective tubeless system that Stan came up with (which would evolve and influence every element of tubeless tire application we see today) was in any way aimed at people who are actually trying to survive day-to-day in a ghetto.

I'm all about tinkering, thinking outside the box, this is how innovation happens. But in this case, I feel strongly that something along the lines of "homeade tubeless," "DIY tubeless," "tubeless for cheapskates" (lol) would be much more accurate and appropriate.

Rant over.

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Old 03-22-23, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
8898 works pretty well
Ive use this as well. Itís a little more expensive than some tapes but quite a bit cheaper than Stanís or Orange Seal branded tape. Still a slight cost savings.

Aside from being blue instead of yellow or orange, itís functionally the same. I think itís about 18mm wide. So for most wheels with an internal width of 23-30mm, youíd need at least two wraps.

Name brands being available in wider sizes could allow you to use just two wraps (I never trust a single wrap).
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Old 03-22-23, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
Ive use this as well. Itís a little more expensive than some tapes but quite a bit cheaper than Stanís or Orange Seal branded tape. Still a slight cost savings.

Aside from being blue instead of yellow or orange, itís functionally the same. I think itís about 18mm wide. So for most wheels with an internal width of 23-30mm, youíd need at least two wraps.

Name brands being available in wider sizes could allow you to use just two wraps (I never trust a single wrap).
The blue reminds me of Reynolds tubeless tape. 8898 also comes in natural (I think that's what they call it)

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Old 03-23-23, 01:44 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
Aside from being blue instead of yellow or orange, itís functionally the same. I think itís about 18mm wide. So for most wheels with an internal width of 23-30mm, youíd need at least two wraps.
[3M 8898 tape] It's available in 18, 24, 48 mm widths.
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Old 03-27-23, 09:03 PM
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Well I did it. Deflated, broke the bead, kept the tire on the wheel, wangled the valve stem out, put the rimstrip onto the valve, put the valve back into the rim, and then worked the rimstrip under the tube all the way around.

It was a little messy because the sealant was fresh, but I was able to seal/seat it back up with just a couple strokes of the floor pump.

When I looked a little bit, I didn't see any obvious dimpling on the tube. I suspect it would have been fine, the tube would have been held firmly in place at both beads, and no riding forces would make it move and get cut from friction with the spoke holes.

But I got peace of mind now anyways
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