SDHawk

Hi, I think this is a pretty basic question. Having trouble pulling out the rear axle to service wheel bearings. Here's a short video showing the issue. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pneeVGgq998ZeTRj7

alcjphil

You have what is left of a freewheel. You will have to remove it from the hub in order to service the bearings

Kontact 

Yup, that's a Suntour freewheel body. You'll need a two or preferably four prong tool and a big wrench or bench vice. You might want to reassemble the axle so you can insert a QR skewer to hold the freewheel tool under torque.

Standard thread - turn it counterclockwise to remove.

maddog34

the thing retaining the axle in the hub is a simple metal dust cover.. tap on the non-drive end of the axle with a soft hammer.clean and re-grease the bearing areas on both sides of the hub... Clean the Axle and cones, inspect for pittingon the load bearing surfaces... replace the cones if needed... .re-install the 9 1/4"ball bearings per side... then tap the axle back into the metal dust cover and hub from the drive side of the hub... put the cone and spacers/locknut back on the non-drive side... adjust to allow a very tiny amount of "play" in the axle ( the QR will TIGHTEN the axle adjustment a tiny bit!)... then put that old 4 notch freewheel back together.

cyccommute 

At this point that is not going to work. The freewheel body that has been removed stabilizes the tool for removal and without the body there the prongs are going to shear off. In my experience, the prongs shear off most of the time anyway but the problem is going be worse without the body in place.

SDHawk: At this point, it’s best to remove the palls and clamp the body in a vise on the flats. It’s called “destructive freewheel removal”. While the link is for a single speed freewheel, the idea is the same.

cyccommute 

Nope. The freewheel body won’t let the cones pass through. You can pound on the other end with Mjölnir and it wouldn’t budge.

Kontact 

With the QR and axle stabilizing it it would be fine. But its also easy enough to drop the body back on before clamping on the pawls.

But if you do clamp the pawls, use blocks of wood.

Kontact 

The cones are wider than the nut?

cyccommute 

Cones, lower locknut or dust cap or all three. The cone is wider than the spacer. The axle won’t come out with the freewheel body in place.

Kontact 

So you're saying that the hole in the freewheel is big enough to get it over the drive side axle lock nut (far left in photo), but not large enough to allow the DS cone through?

maddog34

really? huh.. i just dug out three old 4 prong freewheels... Complete Axle Sets, including the cones(slightly smaller than the 17mm hex locknuts,btw) pass right through them as long as the dust covers aren't in place.... repeat.. THEY PASS RIGHT THROUGH.

Don't believe me? go try it yourself.

dedhed

​​​​​​Build-a-long freewheel!!!! Photo heavy

SDHawk

Thanks for the info, folks. Quite a lively discussion; I guess it wasn't as simple as I thought, I'll admit to still being a bit confused. Will check out the links etc and come back with any questions.

SDHawk

Yup, Suntour. I do have a 4-prong tool and a big wrench. Are we sure that it's a normal direction that will loosen counterclockwise?

I also saw the info about putting the freewheel back on, will try that.

cyccommute 

It’s obvious from the video that the axle won’t come out the freewheel side. IT WON’T PASS RIGHT THROUGH or else it would have. The freewheel body has to come off. SDHawk can move the axle but not remove it. What else do you suggest?

Kontact 

It won't come out because of the pressed on dust cover that maddog34 clearly stated will pop right off if you brace it against the inside of the freewheel and tap the axle with a non-Norse mallet.

Do your bearing service through the 17mm hole in the dust cover, then tap it back together to reseat the cover. Read it again and look at an axle.

Kontact 

Unless you have a special freewheel designed to loosen itself during pedaling, it will come off counterclockwise.

maddog34

i'd suggest that you tear down a Formula Chinese knockoff hub some time...;-)

and also Measure some of the parts you're claiming Knowledge about.

i did.

maddog34

And..if it's Not a metal dust coverpressed onto the cone, it would be a thin seal that''s lightly pressed into the Hub.. and the axle would fall out on it's own.......

SDHawk

Thanks again for the replies. First, I DO want to keep using it.... I only took it apart to clean and degrease since I'm betting it hadn't been done for many years, if ever. Wheels were spinning ok, but I already did the front wheel and needed it for sure.

Good question. Wow I'm dumb, yes the outside had a dust cap that was so tight on the cone I thought it might be one-piece. So I bet the dust cap is preventing the axle from coming out. Here's the non-derive side:





So I probably COIULD tap the axle out. However, I don't see how that would allow me to access the bearings... seems like there wouldn't be enough room to clean well and put them back.

If I pop the freewheel etc back on and use the tool to remove the 4-promg thing, will the whole assembly come off so I can easily get to the bearings?

maddog34

yes. Holding the special 4 prong removal socket in a large Bench Vise then using the Rim to turn the wheel is the preferred method.. and If there is a bike shop near you, i'd advise stopping in and having them remove that old freewheel... You CAN get a twisted paper towel in the Bearing area without removing the Freewheel.. i use an old dull screwdriver to move the towel around in there... i use a magnet to get all 9 balls out first, then add a bit of Penetrant to loosen the old grease, then begin by using my finger and a paper towel to extract as much old grease as possible... then tuckan inch or two of P. towel in and use the old screwdriver to move the towel around in the Bearing area... Repeat until clean....Get some grease on the end of your finger and smear it around in there... use a bit of grease on your finger the re-install each ball bearing, one at a time...make sure each is pressed into place right up against the previous one... Tap the axle and cone back into place... give it another Tap to make sure the dust cover is properly located and won't rub the bearings... re-install the opposite side's cone and locknut. Adjust for a TINY amount of end play.

you do own a Cone nut wrench, correct? this task can not be done properly without at least ONE Cone wrench, typically 15mm size for rear wheels, 13mm for front wheels...,and a 17mm Box end wrench helps too.

i'd think saving a few bucks by having a shop get that Freewheel loose would be the best route.

SurferRosa

Of course.

If it were me and I wanted to keep that freewheel, I would correctly reassemble it first with a little bit of grease on both races that will hold the bearings in place for reassembly.

Next time you do this (freewheel overhaul), it's fine to remove the lock ring while the freewheel is still threaded to the hub. BUT, use the correct freewheel removal tool to loosen the freewheel from the hub first, breaking that super tight, concrete-like bond.

You can then use the wheel itself to help you loosen the freewheel lock ring. Once the lock ring is loose, go back to the removal tool and remove the entire freewheel assembly without spilling a single bearing. Put the now independent freewheel on a towel for complete disassembly, so all those little bearings don't scatter all over the place. Ya dig?

SDHawk

Thanks again for the detailed advice. I went out to the garage a hour ago with the intent of removing the freewheel. After 10 min, it was clear that wasn't gonna happen. I even tried the vice method but I couldn't get it to budge and the "shearing" problem mentioned earlier seemed to be starting.

So I figured why not try to pop out the axle as had also been suggested. Hey, it came out on the first moderate tap! It wasn't "easy" to access the bearings and clean the cup but it wasn't as tough as I thought either. I did almost exactly what you suggested above and it worked out well. I do have cone wrenches and a decent amount of tools that I'm slowly getting the hang of,

Happy to report that it's all cleaned, lubed, and spinning great! I did have a problem the first time.... it wasn't smooth at all.... I think the dust cap wasn't in straight or completely. So I pulled out the axle and hand-pressed it into the cup. 2nd try was the charm.

I still need to put the freewheel back on with those bearings, but I've done that before so I think it will be alright.

Thanks for this info. I did catch all the tiny bearings but it's gonna be a guess how many belong in the bigger ad smaller cups.

Any thoughts on the best method for that also appreciated. For instance, it better to put the grease/bearings on the freewheel and then lower onto the hub? Or better to grease the bearings onto the hub and lower freewheel? Does that make sense, haha?

SurferRosa

​​​​​​
I haven't had good success applying grease/bearings into the lower cluster and then fitting that onto the freewheel body, so what I do is grease that thin freewheel body race (currently threaded to your hub) and load half the bearings there. If you don't know how many bearings came off there, put two less than what will fit. then fit the cluster on top of that. Then place grease and the other half of the bearings onto the race atop the cluster where the lock ring sits. Go skimpy on grease, using only enough to keep the bearings in place. Be sure you haven't added grease to the two pawls.

alcjphil

It is pretty simple to get the freewheel body off. Thread the lockring back on and then you will be able to use the remover to take it off. You don't have to worry about anything else. If you can't get it off at that point, You may have to destroy the freewheel body