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Eyelets not sitting flush

Old 03-31-23, 05:18 PM
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Eyelets not sitting flush

I have a set of new rims that have eyelets. I started to build them today but stopped when I ran into something strange.

I noticed on the rear wheel that the spoke tension was dropping longer than I'm used to as I was stress relieving the wheel. Usually, once I get close to final tension there's not much drop unless there's some spoke windup going on. On this wheel however, the tension kept dropping every time I'd relieve stress (dropping 1 or 2 points on the Park tension meter).

Anyway, what I noticed was that a lot of the eyelets had come away from the rim. If I pull the nipple out, the eyelet can now rattle up and down. These weren't like that before lacing.

I looked at the front which was only about halfway tensioned. I grabbed some pairs of spokes and squeezed them as if stress relieving, and could see the eyelet start to work away from the rim surface.

Do you think this would be an issue long term?
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Old 03-31-23, 05:54 PM
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Tension drop after stress relieving is expected if you are doing it right.
As for the eyelet, it looks to me like it was not properly clinched at the factory and I would be looking at warranty options.
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Old 04-01-23, 08:08 AM
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Is the rim a Mavic by any chance?
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Old 04-01-23, 10:06 AM
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What does the eyelet look like from the inner side? Perhaps the inner flange of the eyelet was defective, though since it is a lot of eyelets I'd suspect a manufacturing fault. Personally, I would stop immediately and contact the vendor to return these. I would not trust them to stay true.

You've spent good money on the rims and spokes and are also spending a lot of time to build these wheels that will always be iffy. Send them back and buy a different brand.
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Old 04-01-23, 11:37 AM
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Bad rim eyelets, return the rims.
What’s with the chewed up nipples?
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Old 04-01-23, 03:18 PM
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This is characteristic of too much spoke for the rim. Namely either too much tension, too stout a spoke, or, usually, both in concert.

I can't offer an opinion without knowing the details including what rim, what spokes and tensions, and your stress relieving process.

It helps to remember that stress relief is about bringing the spokes beyond yield, but can also bring the rim beyond yield, pulling the upper surface in and allowing the eyelet to settle.

It's easy to blame the rim, and that may well be the case, but go back and review the process.
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Old 04-01-23, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
This is characteristic of too much spoke for the rim. Namely either too much tension, too stout a spoke, or, usually, both in concert.
Well, that's a new one. How does a tight or thick spoke cause the top half of what is essentially a rivet/grommet become loose?
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Old 04-01-23, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Well, that's a new one. How does a tight or thick spoke cause the top half of what is essentially a rivet/grommet become loose?
By over stressing and distorting the rim. It's a different outcome of the same issue that causes stress cracks near spoke holes.

FWIW these problems weren't rare BITD when folks started using thicker spokes and/or higher tensions on the lighter rims more common back then.
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Old 04-01-23, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
By over stressing and distorting the rim. It's a different outcome of the same issue that causes stress cracks near spoke holes.

FWIW these problems weren't rare BITD when folks started using thicker spokes and/or higher tensions on the lighter rims more common back then.
I can see how an unanodized thin wall rim from the '80s could distort enough to push the rivet up, but it doesn't look like the rim material is pushing up on the rivet. There's just a gap.

I doubt any modern anodized rim can deflect that far without first cracking. The aluminum is too hard for that.
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Old 04-01-23, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I can see how an unanodized thin wall rim from the '80s could distort enough to push the rivet up, but it doesn't look like the rim material is pushing up on the rivet. There's just a gap.

I doubt any modern anodized rim can deflect that far without first cracking. The aluminum is too hard for that.
If you note, i prefaced the post saying that the details matter. I was simply offering a possibility to consider.

Until the OP provides details, including an explanation of his stress relief process, we can only throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

However, having seen similar failures over the years, I admittedly tend to blame mechanics more than I do metal. However, I don't have enough info to offer an opinion, just a possibility to consider.

Lastly, there's no point debating. It's up to the OP to consider the possibilities posted here, factor those with his own experience and draw his own conclusions.

Last edited by FBinNY; 04-01-23 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 04-01-23, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
If you note, i prefaced the post saying that the details matter. I was simply offering a possibility to consider.

Until the OP provides details, including an explanation of his stress relief process, we can only throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

However, having seen similar failures over the years, I admittedly tend to blame mechanics more than I do metal. However, I don't have enough info to offer an opinion, just a possibility to consider.

Lastly, there's no point debating. It's up to the OP to consider the possibilities posted here, factor those with his own experience and draw his own conclusions.
Are there stress relief techniques that are harder on the nipple hole than hitting bump with a 120 psi tire and a 200 pound rider?
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Old 04-01-23, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Are there stress relief techniques that are harder on the nipple hole than hitting bump with a 120 psi tire and a 200 pound rider?
Absolutely, there's no comparison.

Keep in mind that most riding loads are such that they slacken spokes, and reduce stress at the spoke holes.

Meanwhile, the stress relief process is about overloading the spokes, and as a by product doing likewise to the rim.

FWIW I've never seen an eyelet pulled out on the road, even with super light rims, but I've seen more than a few pulled out by builders.
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Old 04-02-23, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Are there stress relief techniques that are harder on the nipple hole than hitting bump with a 120 psi tire and a 200 pound rider?
This was my thought. Not to mention if a wheel can't handle stress relief by a builder, it won't be able to handle the number of stress cycles by a rider in a single ride.
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Old 04-02-23, 03:26 PM
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These are (relatively) inexpensive and not name brand rims. I've had good luck with them in the past, but I've not seen this before.

My stress relieve process is usually to place the wheel on it's side and bounce some of my weight on the rim while spinning the wheel to do the full circumference. I'll also place the wheel in my lap, put my elbows on the rim and then grab the far side and give it a pull (hard to explain). These are 42mm wide double wall rims, so fairly stiff.

I'd say max tension wasn't ever over 130kgf while building up.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm moving on from these.
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Old 04-02-23, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Shinkers
These are (relatively) inexpensive and not name brand rims. I've had good luck with them in the past, but I've not seen this before.

My stress relieve process is usually to place the wheel on it's side and bounce some of my weight on the rim while spinning the wheel to do the full circumference. I'll also place the wheel in my lap, put my elbows on the rim and then grab the far side and give it a pull (hard to explain). These are 42mm wide double wall rims, so fairly stiff.

I'd say max tension wasn't ever over 130kgf while building up.

Thanks for all the replies. I'm moving on from these.
The first stress relief method you mention is pretty standard procedure. Not sure I understand the other one the way you describe it. Another standard stress relief method is to grab pairs of spokes and squeeze as hard as you can (with thick gloves of course). Quality rims should be able to handle 130kgF while building with no problems.
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