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How to remove Campagnolo weird circlip?

Old 06-03-23, 08:35 AM
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How to remove Campagnolo weird circlip?

Hi everybody!, I have a very weird circlip on my campagnolo chorus 11v, and dont know how to remove it, its not a classic circlip, here is the picture:


Anybody knows this kind of circlip?

Thanks a lot!!
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Old 06-03-23, 01:01 PM
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"Service Center Only".. Campy has now chosen to design away it's ease of service.

Apparently the Italian engineers have decided that you are no longer trusted to be a home mechanic.

is there an issue with your derailleur?
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Old 06-03-23, 01:42 PM
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Yes, I need to apply more tension to the spring or replace it. I bought the bicycle second-hand, and it was probably left for a long time with the rear derailleur on the largest cogs, keeping the spring under tension, I know people have removed it (on the forums), but I dont know how its done.
The derailleur its not bad, Im able to use it, but its not 100% perfect as my previous bike (ultegra), I like to have it just perfect!
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Old 06-03-23, 10:35 PM
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It's a 2 piece snap ring. The upper portion comes off by popping the "ears" towards the thread on the upper pivot bolt, then you can pull the lower portion out.

Is the upper pivot sticking? Some Campag 11 spd RD had issues with the upper pivot sticking if the fixing bolt was over-tightened. Loosen the pivot bolt slightly and it should pivot. I have a Chorus RD on my Ritchey that will stick if the fixing bolt is torqued to the recommended 10 Nm. If it is torqued to 8.5 Nm it works fine, but anything over that and it starts sticking.
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Old 06-04-23, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ctripblog
Hi everybody!, I have a very weird circlip on my campagnolo chorus 11v, and dont know how to remove it, its not a classic circlip, here is the picture:


Anybody knows this kind of circlip?

Thanks a lot!!
Before you go too far down the rabbit hole, rotate the clip and verify that there is a second hole to increase pivot spring tension. I've seen newer Campag RDs that don't have that like previous versions. Let me guess, you're having trouble with the top jockey wheel fouling the largest, second to largest, sprockets? First, adjust the H scew to get proper clearance. If that doesn't work, take a link out of the chain to create more tension, that pivot spring isn't worn out or weak.

One thing to note, the pic you provided isn't of a Campag Chorus 11 RD. They don't have a "B" screw. They have an "H" screw located on the pivot below it. Here is a pic of the H screw, it's located on the lower pivot.

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Old 06-04-23, 08:10 AM
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Why do you need to increase the tension? If you are using the DR as it's designed to be used, then likely something else is the issue.

If the spring is truly under tensioned, then that would seem like a warranty issue. Springs don't lose tension. Other stuff just gets gummed up or messed up making them less effective. So fix those things first.
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Old 06-04-23, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Why do you need to increase the tension? If you are using the DR as it's designed to be used, then likely something else is the issue.

If the spring is truly under tensioned, then that would seem like a warranty issue. Springs don't lose tension. Other stuff just gets gummed up or messed up making them less effective. So fix those things first.
Shimano B springs lose tension. Springs pushed past rheir design limits do wear out.
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Old 06-04-23, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Shimano B springs lose tension. Springs pushed past rheir design limits do wear out.
I wouldn't expect someone to be using their stuff beyond the design limits. Though I imagine it happens, but it's not the first thing I'd assume just because someone thinks they need to tighten their spring.

Many seem to think that springs normally lose tension as they age. For the most part I've seen no evidence of such. Other things just get gummed up and require more force. So that is the first thing that should be looked at.
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Old 06-04-23, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I wouldn't expect someone to be using their stuff beyond the design limits. Though I imagine it happens, but it's not the first thing I'd assume just because someone thinks they need to tighten their spring.

Many seem to think that springs normally lose tension as they age. For the most part I've seen no evidence of such. Other things just get gummed up and require more force. So that is the first thing that should be looked at.
Shimano built derailleurs that push the B springs past their capacity. Anyone who has tuned up bikes for a living knows that aging Simano derailleurs eventually max out their B screws.

People grossly misunderstand what does or does not cause permanent set in springs.
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Old 06-04-23, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Shimano built derailleurs that push the B springs past their capacity. Anyone who has tuned up bikes for a living knows that aging Simano derailleurs eventually max out their B screws.

People grossly misunderstand what does or does not cause permanent set in springs.
If you say so, I guess it must be so.

So you don't think one should ever check for other causes? Just immediately assume it's the spring and nothing else but the spring.
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Old 06-04-23, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
If you say so, I guess it must be so.

So you don't think one should ever check for other causes? Just immediately assume it's the spring and nothing else but the spring.
And what would those other causes be?
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Old 06-04-23, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Shimano B springs lose tension. Springs pushed past rheir design limits do wear out.
i've seen a couple failed ones... they were over 30 years old.and rusted too.

kinda doubting that's the case with an 11 speed chorus der.....
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Old 06-04-23, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax
Before you go too far down the rabbit hole, rotate the clip and verify that there is a second hole to increase pivot spring tension. I've seen newer Campag RDs that don't have that like previous versions. Let me guess, you're having trouble with the top jockey wheel fouling the largest, second to largest, sprockets? First, adjust the H scew to get proper clearance. If that doesn't work, take a link out of the chain to create more tension, that pivot spring isn't worn out or weak.

One thing to note, the pic you provided isn't of a Campag Chorus 11 RD. They don't have a "B" screw. They have an "H" screw located on the pivot below it. Here is a pic of the H screw, it's located on the lower pivot.

Hi, thanks for your reply!, My chorus 11v, have both screws, the one in the cage it has 3 holes so you can adjust tension, not the other one.

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Old 06-04-23, 12:30 PM
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BEFORE doing anything, consider whether it's both necessary and possible.

To begin with, springs DO NOT LOSE TENSION when stored under load, so it's highly unlikely that yours has lower strength than a new one would. So, a new spring won't change anything, even if you could find one.

Knowing that, it's rime to try to understand what you problem really is, why, and how to correct it.
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Old 06-04-23, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ctripblog
Hi, thanks for your reply!, My chorus 11v, have both screws, the one in the cage it has 3 holes so you can adjust tension, not the other one.

Then decrease the tension on the front one.
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Old 06-04-23, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
BEFORE doing anything, consider whether it's both necessary and possible.

To begin with, springs DO NOT LOSE TENSION when stored under load, so it's highly unlikely that yours has lower strength than a new one would. So, a new spring won't change anything, even if you could find one.

Knowing that, it's rime to try to understand what you problem really is, why, and how to correct it.
I dont know if this not apply to campy, because Its my first bike with it, but I can assure you, that in my old cannondale synapse with shimano 105 (long cage), this bike came with 11-32 cassette from the factory , I bought it second hand, and with the B-screw totally tensioned, I had the jockey wheel touching the big cog (32), my solution was, disassemble it, open another hole with a drill and put the spring under more tension, and problem solved!

So with shimano springs they lose tension.
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Old 06-04-23, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
BEFORE doing anything, consider whether it's both necessary and possible.

To begin with, springs DO NOT LOSE TENSION when stored under load, so it's highly unlikely that yours has lower strength than a new one would. So, a new spring won't change anything, even if you could find one.

Knowing that, it's rime to try to understand what you problem really is, why, and how to correct it.
This is simply not true. Any spring can be pushed into its plastic deformation limit and lose tension. Only devices that keep the spring away from that limit will fail to harm the spring over use.
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Old 06-04-23, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ctripblog
Yes, I need to apply more tension to the spring or replace it. I bought the bicycle second-hand, and it was probably left for a long time with the rear derailleur on the largest cogs, keeping the spring under tension,
No, you don't. Springs don't "take a set" so whatever your shifting problems are, it is not cause by a "too weak" spring.l
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Old 06-04-23, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons
No, you don't. Springs don't "take a set" so whatever your shifting problems are, it is not cause by a "too weak" spring.l
Yes, they can. I don't know if everyone is just repeating what they heard or left that engineering class early that day. But springs have a working range that can be exceeded.

https://www.thespringstore.com/maxim...mpression.html
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Old 06-04-23, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Yes, they can. I don't know if everyone is just repeating what they heard or left that engineering class early that day. But springs have a working range that can be exceeded.

https://www.thespringstore.com/maxim...mpression.html
Of course they can. When they are pushed beyond their elastic limit they can take a set and be effectively weakened. But that has nothing to do with the case at hand. Derailleur springs will not get weak in normal operation because they never get pushed that far. Storing a derailleur in "high" or "low" position will not affect their springs. The only way age will affect them would be through corrosion.
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Old 06-04-23, 05:50 PM
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Too wrong to ignore

Originally Posted by Kontact
This is simply not true. Any spring can be pushed into its plastic deformation limit and lose tension. Only devices that keep the spring away from that limit will fail to harm the spring over use.
Normally, I ignore stuff like this and figure readers can sort it out based on other sources, but can't let this one go for many reasons.

First because the poster is very active and keeps reminding folks of his "credentials", and also because it plays into a commonly accepted myth.

So, first problem is that he's "correcting" something I never said. The OP was worried about a spring being weak because it was stored a long time under load, my post specifically addressed that, and only that (time), consideration, so the "simply not true" simply isn't supported by what follows. I repeat, springs do not weaken by being stored under load. If they did, cars would settle while sitting in driveways, bridges would sag, and so on. This is an old myth and needs to be debunked.

Secondly. Though It's not on point, it's true that a spring can be deformed by overloading. However, that will not change it's spring constant, only the "zero point". In the case of an RD spring with over 10 turns, it would take a staggering amount of distortion (even were it possible) to move that zero point enough to make any noticeable difference.

Third, the post contradicts itself. First he says that springs can deform if overloaded, lists the one way to prevent that. Does he not know that RDs already already meet his preventative condition? EVERY RD has stops to prevent cage rotation beyond a limited arc. They do so the RD won't wind up when the wheel is removed. Those same limits (combined with the spring's design) ensure that it's impossible to overload the spring in normal use. One would have to remove the stops, and manually rotate the cage a few turns with the intent of destroying the spring.

None of this would matter, but my initial "corrected" post was simply intended to help the OP avoid wasting time and money "fixing" something that isn't broken.

-----------------------------

To the OP ---- do not waste your money on the spring, it's fine. There are other places to look, including the possibility of dried lube, or other sources of friction. Also consider that Cage take up is more about chain length and geometry than spring tension. The biggest factor is the position of the idler pulley. At 6 o'clock it's pulling directly back on the chain and does a decent job tensioning it. However with a longish chain and/or a small sprocket combination the idler swings up to 8 o'clock or so where it's pulling almost tangentially to the chain and therefore not adding much tension. So if you want a tighter chain, the first step is to see if your gear combination will allow a shorter chain. Alternatively, take the RD apart, and drill a new spring hole into either the cage or RD body to move the zero point and increasing the tension in the working range.
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Old 06-04-23, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons
Of course they can. When they are pushed beyond their elastic limit they can take a set and be effectively weakened. But that has nothing to do with the case at hand. Derailleur springs will not get weak in normal operation because they never get pushed that far. Storing a derailleur in "high" or "low" position will not affect their springs. The only way age will affect them would be through corrosion.
I have seen literally hundreds of Shimano DA and Ultegra RDs on well ridden but cared for road bikes with standard gearing where the B spring is so worn it will allow the upper pulley to rest against the 26t cog with the screw all the way in, despite the fact that the initial installation would only require a few turns to clear.

That coil spring is preloaded, which means that it is well into its elastic range. So I would assume that certain shifts pull the spring briefly past the elastic limit, causing them to deform with time.

That may not have anything to do with the OPs bike, and he has the ability to adjust A tension so it doesn't matter. I just don't think saying that these springs can't be worn is counterproductive to diagnosis.

FBinNY My apologies for not reading your post more carefully.
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Old 06-05-23, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
And what would those other causes be?
The OP hasn't said anything about why they think the spring needs more tension. So without knowing what the bike bike isn't doing correctly, there really isn't a point to wondering about the other causes.
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Old 06-05-23, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I have seen literally hundreds of Shimano DA and Ultegra RDs on well ridden but cared for road bikes with standard gearing where the B spring is so worn it will allow the upper pulley to rest against the 26t cog with the screw all the way in, despite the fact that the initial installation would only require a few turns to clear.

That coil spring is preloaded, which means that it is well into its elastic range. So I would assume that certain shifts pull the spring briefly past the elastic limit, causing them to deform with time.

That may not have anything to do with the OPs bike, and he has the ability to adjust A tension so it doesn't matter. I just don't think saying that these springs can't be worn is counterproductive to diagnosis.

FBinNY My apologies for not reading your post more carefully.
Thanks for your reply, thats exactly what happened to an old 105 rear derailleur, I experienced that, and have to repair it by myself by drilling a little hole 2mm apart from the original, was enough to get the proper tension again, and have the derailleur working perfect.

Because of that previous experience, is why I think that this campy derailleur has the same problem.
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Old 06-05-23, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ctripblog
Thanks for your reply, thats exactly what happened to an old 105 rear derailleur, I experienced that, and have to repair it by myself by drilling a little hole 2mm apart from the original, was enough to get the proper tension again, and have the derailleur working perfect.

Because of that previous experience, is why I think that this campy derailleur has the same problem.
But now you have a derailleur with an A tension adjustment. You should try that first.
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