Originally Posted by maddog34
(Post 22915751)
Using a DAG (not "HAG") involves a series of "Little adjustments", and checking those adjustments in a vertical alignment with the wheel, then doing the same in a horizontal plane, then re-checking the vertical align, and then re-checking the horizontal align..... and then i do one last verification check of both alignments.... :thumb:
https://www.abbeybiketools.com/products/hag |
Originally Posted by veganbikes
(Post 22914789)
Here are my top choices:
Abbey HAG (I own this personally) EVT Tru-Arc Park DAG-3 Shimano RD-TL11 Park DAG-2.2 Wolf Tooth Pack Hanger Alignment Tool (portable) Yes some of these tools are maybe initially expensive but a precision tool that lasts a long time and does the job well is well worth it. You will not regret spending money on high quality tools you will regret having to buy cheap tools over and over again and potentially doing damage to different parts on your bike. Make sure you read the instructions well or watch some videos on the tool you end up with. Having this tool and knowing how to use it is helpful but if you don't want to do it your local shop can do it but having the tools and knowledge is pretty awesome. A few years ago, I changed a perfectly shifting SRAM Force derailleur with a similar new one (longer cage for bigger cogs range). The new one had poor shifting and it got even worse after aligning the hanger with a new alignment tool. It finally took me almost one hour to re-align it by eye, then it worked perfect for tens of thousands km (still works with almost zero failure or noise). I bet that if I go back to the old derailleur, I will need to do the same procedure by eye to get it perfectly shifting. |
here's an idea that I had not thought of. 10X1.
not much leverage but might work in a pinch /markp https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc23db5e2e.jpg |
Originally Posted by mpetry912
(Post 22916286)
here's an idea that I had not thought of. 10X1.
not much leverage but might work in a pinch /markp https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc23db5e2e.jpg |
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
(Post 22914734)
...if you are going to use it a lot (like professionally), this might matter. But they all work about the same, so for home use, get something that's cheaper.
For some reason, this is one of the tools that has spawned all sorts of high end, beautiful tool versions. They don't do a significantly better job than the cheaper ones, if used properly. Here's one for 25 bucks. |
Originally Posted by Redbullet
(Post 22916028)
Those tools do not work every time. To work well, the bolt of the tool should be perfectly straight and aligned perfectly perpendicular (by construction) to the hanger. Then, the mounting and cage bolts of the derailleur should also be perfectly perpendicular (by construction) to the surface of the hanger. Those conditions are not always met, because all the above have their errors (tolerances) in manufacturing.
A few years ago, I changed a perfectly shifting SRAM Force derailleur with a similar new one (longer cage for bigger cogs range). The new one had poor shifting and it got even worse after aligning the hanger with a new alignment tool. It finally took me almost one hour to re-align it by eye, then it worked perfect for tens of thousands km (still works with almost zero failure or noise). I bet that if I go back to the old derailleur, I will need to do the same procedure by eye to get it perfectly shifting. |
Originally Posted by mpetry912
(Post 22916286)
here's an idea that I had not thought of. 10X1.
not much leverage but might work in a pinch /markp https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc23db5e2e.jpg |
Originally Posted by wheelreason
(Post 22915915)
You do you. I take my (monogramed) HAG, check all around, align to where the readings require, and seldom have to tweek any further, 12 speed, yeah, a couple of nudges maybe.
https://www.abbeybiketools.com/products/hag and i just opened vegan's post... I've only owned a Park DAG, bought used for $20, along with a WAG and aFAG, also at $20 each.... I wasn't aware that some other manufacturers called DAGs HATs and HAGs.. I'm now thinking i prefer the HAG tag, since that is what the tool aligns, eh?.. :D i'd put an o-ring on the HAG.... and set the drag with a dab of permatex B after ensuring the tip of the set screw was properly radiused and burnished. |
Originally Posted by veganbikes
(Post 22916953)
They may not work every single time but if you know how to use the tool, it is less likely to be an issue. A lot of people end up not doing it right and having issues. Pick one spot on your rim and use that spot each direction you are aligning in so you have a much much better chance of fixing the problem.
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
(Post 22917138)
Yes, I'm sure it works many times. But I think it is good to know that, apart from possible wrong manufacturing of some tools, it may happen that 2 similar derailleurs, otherwise of very good quality, may need different alignments of the hanger in order to work properly. I guess it is the case for derailleurs that happens to be manufactured at the opposite limits of alignment tolerances, or maybe out of the tolerance. For such cases (not many, I assume), the only solution is visual alignment of the hanger. This might lead to very good results, otherwise not possible with the tool.
Obviously yes if you have derailleurs that are bent then a hanger alignment tool is not going to really help on that front and conversely if you have a cheap tool that is poorly manufactured then it might not do you much good but if you use quality stuff again this is much less likely to happen. |
Originally Posted by rbrides
(Post 22914625)
What brand & model alignment tool do you guys recommend?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/85/4e...694b528884.jpg Take a look around just get one the looks like that. Yes there are more expensive models that might work better for regular usage. But for occasional home shop use, the inexpensive ones are fine. I also recommend strongly to pre-emptively get a spare hanger for all your bikes. It's quite likely that in the process of adjusting alignment, the hanger will crack. They are designed to be kind of "sacrificial" to break rather than bend or brake a more expensive part. It is even more likely to break if you align it more than once and espeically if you have to align it after a fall in which it gets bent. The spares are usually available at the frame manufacturer's website and also at places like derailleurhanger.com. Sometimes you can't find the exact one for an older bike, in which case you can get a reasonable replacement at that sort of place based on the shape and attachment of the one you're trying to replace. But get one sooner rather than later because you want to have it the instant you need it and if you wait too long, you might not be able to easily find one. |
Originally Posted by veganbikes
(Post 22917261)
if you have a cheap tool that is poorly manufactured then it might not do you much good but if you use quality stuff again this is much less likely to happen.
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Originally Posted by smd4
(Post 22918503)
It’s not an x-ray machine or a grand piano. It’s probably one of the simplest bike tools you can get. The $25 Amazon one will be fine. It’s not necessary to get the hanger aligned within two micrometers…
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For occasional personal use the Park DAG 2 series is fine. You might ask your local shops if they want to sell theirs —I know my shop will get rid of ours as soon as we can source a Dag-3
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
(Post 22918526)
I never said anything about micrometers so not really relevant to what I wrote.
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Originally Posted by smd4
(Post 22920535)
It’s a unit of measurement. Apparently “micron” is outdated. The point being, bending a bent hanger doesn’t have to be microscopically precise.
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Never mind.
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