Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Better quality rear axle for 6 speed

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Better quality rear axle for 6 speed

Old 06-11-23, 10:44 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,378

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 869 Times in 457 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Sounds like you want Kapaun to put you on his “ignore” list!!
I'll be honest, I've been ticking people off my whole life. If Bill wants to be offended by the way I choose my words, then that's his choice.
Same with Ignore.
I am who I am and I don't ignore anyone. Yes, some people annoy me, but they bring something to the table anyway.
I appreciate intelligence, and some people who are intelligent sometimes say things that aren't but that doesn't make them any less of a resource.
I've been known to fight people, and then turn around and defend them.
I have haters and fans, pick a side.
Either way I'm going to keep doing what I do, I'm too old to change now.
Schweinhund is offline  
Likes For Schweinhund:
Old 06-11-23, 10:54 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,378

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 869 Times in 457 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
You really think $40 is “more expensive?”
Perspective my friend, perspective. If someone hasn't bought a hand machined product before, it can seem pricy.
That is until you realize you never had to buy another.
Schweinhund is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 10:59 AM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
Dave Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1379 Post(s)
Liked 482 Times in 282 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
When I was looking around those popped in the more expensive category so the question is, are they actually better?

Another option I was looking at are Campagnolo branded axles. I would think campy would source better quality ones.
At the Co-op I wrench at, we see at least one broken axle per week, but then we deal with a lot of old and abused wheels. But recently, current bikes are showing up with axle breaks, such as cheap suspension MTBs with disc brakes. Or last month, a new tandem. And about the same time a 7-speed E-bike that must have weighted 100 pounds. Seriously?? Are bike manufacturers so cheap and short-sighted that they are spec'ing cheap freewheels on cheap freewheel hubs on bikes with high loads and now high torques plus loads? Rhetorical question: clearly they are.

So for the mechanics out there: prepare to see a new rush of broken axles and subsequently mangled up rear hubs as the riders continue on with broken axles until the rear wheel seizes-up solid. We see the aftermath of this regularly: you open up the rear hub to find metal slurry that used to be ball bearings. Cones and cups are destroyed.

BTW: Campagnolo vintage axles have a different threading than almost everyone else, so your cones and locknuts would not even thread on.
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 11:03 AM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by Schweinhund
Perspective my friend, perspective. If someone hasn't bought a hand machined product before, it can seem pricy.
That is until you realize you never had to buy another.
I spent $100 on a titanium rear axle. So yeah, from my perspective, $40 is cheap.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 06-11-23, 11:12 AM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
Dave Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1379 Post(s)
Liked 482 Times in 282 Posts
Go to your local bike Co-op where they will have a bucket-o-axles in every weird size and length possible. We do. We sell them for $1 used and $5 for new fancy ones. Make sure the used ones roll straight.

We have dozens of 145mm long 10mm hollow axles for rear quick-release hubs, the most common size. If 145mm is too long, then 5 minutes with a hacksaw fixes it.

No Co-op? Then beg and scavenge the parts from the wrecked wheel collection at the back of you local shop. This is one of the reasons why Shimano hubs are so great: spare parts everywhere.
Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 01:15 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
You really think $40 is “more expensive?”
I guess you missed the part where I said garden variety ones sell for under $10 all day long on Amazon. So yes, $40 is more expensive than $10.
abdon is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 01:33 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,985

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1300 Post(s)
Liked 742 Times in 537 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Go to your local bike Co-op where they will have a bucket-o-axles in every weird size and length possible. We do. We sell them for $1 used and $5 for new fancy ones. Make sure the used ones roll straight.

We have dozens of 145mm long 10mm hollow axles for rear quick-release hubs, the most common size. If 145mm is too long, then 5 minutes with a hacksaw fixes it.

No Co-op? Then beg and scavenge the parts from the wrecked wheel collection at the back of you local shop. This is one of the reasons why Shimano hubs are so great: spare parts everywhere.
Got any Sansin RE-50 Sealed Bearing QR axles in stock?? because, without further information from Albon, that would be a safe bet on what Axle and Hub we should be speculating about here....

personally, i'd whack that bent toad with my 3 lb. deadblow a couple times and slip it back in the hub.

oh, and the Alyeska is a much loved 1984 Touring bike with 6 speeds.. any guess as to the O.L.D. on that hub?

my guess is 126mm, most likely.

Last edited by maddog34; 06-11-23 at 01:41 PM.
maddog34 is offline  
Likes For maddog34:
Old 06-11-23, 01:46 PM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
I guess you missed the part where I said garden variety ones sell for under $10 all day long on Amazon. So yes, $40 is more expensive than $10.
Sorry. Guess I was confused by the part where you said you wanted something better than a $10 axle.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 06-11-23, 01:55 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,378

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 869 Times in 457 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
I guess you missed the part where I said garden variety ones sell for under $10 all day long on Amazon. So yes, $40 is more expensive than $10.
My good sir, not to offend, but he's right. The 40 dollar axle is cheap.
I GAY RON TEE you you're going to bend your new axle. and probably another.
Each time you have to disassemble, reassemble, adjust.
The 40 dollar axle isn't just an axle, it is a defacto superior product.
You will most probably never have to replace it once done.
Schweinhund is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 02:30 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Sorry. Guess I was confused by the part where you said you wanted something better than a $10 axle.
You really seem to struggle with this whole reading comprehension bit. Yes, I would expect a $40 part to be better than one that costs $10. But because we live in a world where $10 parts are just beefed up with $30 worth of branding I figure I would ask people that play with vintage equipment.
abdon is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 02:38 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
You really seem to struggle with this whole reading comprehension bit. Yes, I would expect a $40 part to be better than one that costs $10. But because we live in a world where $10 parts are just beefed up with $30 worth of branding I figure I would ask people that play with vintage equipment.
Are you not comprehending what people are saying about the higher quality of the more expensive axle?
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 02:52 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Are you not comprehending what people are saying about the higher quality of the more expensive axle?
I am. Do you see me needlessly arguing with them? So far, as pointed out here, the better manufacturer of freewheel axles is Wheels Manufacturing. Which based on people here and other places do use better steel, better heat treatment, and better thread cutting, for a better product.
abdon is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 03:03 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
Do you see me needlessly arguing with them?
Yeah, I kinda do. Seems like you’re spending a lot of time coming up with reasons not to spend the $40 bucks.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 06-11-23, 03:15 PM
  #39  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4
Yeah, I kinda do. Seems like you’re spending a lot of time coming up with reasons not to spend the $40 bucks.
Your lack of reading comprehension strikes again. I'm the one looking to pay more for a better quality axle, not the other way around.
abdon is offline  
Old 06-11-23, 05:44 PM
  #40  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
Your lack of reading comprehension strikes again. I'm the one looking to pay more for a better quality axle, not the other way around.
So have you ordered one yet?
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-12-23, 09:07 PM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,431

Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked 459 Times in 345 Posts
I rode nothing but freewheel bikes from 1970 until 2005. Never broke and axle, but I bent a couple, especially when using Normandy hubs. These were all with 120 and 126 mm hub spacing. If yours is 130 mm or wider, then yeah, a freehub wheel might be a better idea. But I've replaced many broken axles on inexpensive hybrids and never had one come back. The trick is to make sure the drive-side locknut is good and TIGHT. And just to be safe, check the wheel for wobble once in a fortnight or two.

And yeah, you can order axle-cone-locknut sets directly from wheelsmfg.com, or if you're unsteady about taking things apart and measuring, your local bike shop can measure and order for you.
oldbobcat is offline  
Old 06-23-23, 01:52 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by oldbobcat
I rode nothing but freewheel bikes from 1970 until 2005. Never broke and axle, but I bent a couple, especially when using Normandy hubs. These were all with 120 and 126 mm hub spacing. If yours is 130 mm or wider, then yeah, a freehub wheel might be a better idea. But I've replaced many broken axles on inexpensive hybrids and never had one come back. The trick is to make sure the drive-side locknut is good and TIGHT. And just to be safe, check the wheel for wobble once in a fortnight or two.

And yeah, you can order axle-cone-locknut sets directly from wheelsmfg.com, or if you're unsteady about taking things apart and measuring, your local bike shop can measure and order for you.
I don't foresee having any issues, I don't plan on loading this bike all that much nor riding it all that hard. All I was asking about was for a quality part mostly out of principle, I'm happy with the Wheels Manufacturing axle I just got.

For my Trek 720 I built a wheelset with Velocity Dyad rims, 36 spokes laced 4 cross, rear on a Shimano XTR hub, front on a Son dynamo hub. The Velocity Dyad is an incredibly strong rim, this build is as bulletproof as it gets; If I have to carry a heavy load that's the bike I would use. I don't think I'll get around to load this Raleigh all that much.
abdon is offline  
Likes For abdon:
Old 06-23-23, 03:16 AM
  #43  
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,472
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Liked 1,801 Times in 1,006 Posts
If axles are always bending right behind the cone, then why don't they make the cone longer? ie. extend out the nose of the cone? It's such an obvious solution I'm surprised nobody came up with it except me,
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 06-23-23, 05:35 AM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
It's such an obvious solution I'm surprised nobody came up with it except me,
Well, that would make one of you…
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-23-23, 07:22 AM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,378

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 869 Times in 457 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
If axles are always bending right behind the cone, then why don't they make the cone longer? ie. extend out the nose of the cone? It's such an obvious solution I'm surprised nobody came up with it except me,
That would b one long assed cone and wouldn't help because the fulcrum point essentially remains the same. the inside point of the cone.
Free hubs spread the bearings wider, less drive side leverage. making a longer cone leaves the bearings located inward, same problem..
Schweinhund is offline  
Old 06-23-23, 08:12 AM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: SW Florida, USA
Posts: 1,305

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Liked 703 Times in 473 Posts
Originally Posted by Schweinhund
That would b one long assed cone and wouldn't help because the fulcrum point essentially remains the same. the inside point of the cone.
Free hubs spread the bearings wider, less drive side leverage. making a longer cone leaves the bearings located inward, same problem..
Pretty sure it actually makes the problem worse.

In the case of a hub cone, I'm reasonably sure the fulcrum points are the edges of the cone (the rest of the cone provides support to the axle). For a freewheel or Shimano freehub cone, this should produce a significant bending moment at the nose of the DS cone (see this linked article by the late Jobst Brandt for discussion of four-bearing design hub variants, which he assessed to have a weak spot issue in virtually the same place). Since the threads almost always will extend at least slightly past the inboard nose of the cone on a cup/cone bearing, you also have a coincident stress riser due to the threads.

A longer nose on a freewheel cone would thus move the fulcrum point inboard further. This would seem to me to be a Very Bad Idea.
Hondo6 is offline  
Likes For Hondo6:
Old 06-23-23, 09:21 AM
  #47  
gna
Count Orlok Member
 
gna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,819

Bikes: Raleigh Sports, Raleigh Twenty, Raleigh Wyoming, Raleigh DL1, Schwinn Winter Bike

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 97 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
oh, and the Alyeska is a much loved 1984 Touring bike with 6 speeds.. any guess as to the O.L.D. on that hub?

my guess is 126mm, most likely.
Yes.

They were made for Raleigh USA, most likely by Giant in Taiwan. Not a BSO or box store bike.

I have a Wyoming that I have been bringing up to higher standard (triple, better brakes, better wheels) and it does handle a load well.

OP, I had a problem with my rear hub, so I built up some new wheels. If I saved the axle you're welcome to it. I'll look for it this weekend.
Attached Files

Last edited by gna; 06-23-23 at 09:29 AM.
gna is offline  
Old 06-23-23, 10:52 AM
  #48  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 252 Posts
No problems with the rear hub. I just like rebuilding vintage bikes and as such using better components is just a nice touch. I don't know why so many people choose to assume that I wanted the impossible or the very least the unrealistic.

Here's a picture of the work in progress:



You should have seen it with the nasty purple handlebar tape, rubber seat, and dollar store watter bottle cage... I added turkey wing brake levers, sewn leather handlebars, matching leather seat baggy, smooth Honjo aluminum fenders (still fitting them), and bar end shifters. I still need to fabricate the matching leather pedal straps, mud flaps, and other leather bits. I also need a new Brooks saddle so I can match the color, I borrowed this one from another bike so I could ride it for now.

This is not the rack configuration I'm going to end up with, I'm going to set it up more as a randonneuring bike but I want to test it fully loaded. I want to see how it handles compared to my Trek 720. Heck if I was going with this rack I would have to chop the mounts so I could get it about 1.75" lower in the front

I'm also going with a TA Cyclotouriste crank, an Acorn tall rando front bag, and the Japanese market Dia Compe bar end shifters that Rivendell sells.
abdon is offline  
Likes For abdon:
Old 06-23-23, 10:58 AM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,472
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1611 Post(s)
Liked 1,801 Times in 1,006 Posts
Originally Posted by Schweinhund
That would b one long assed cone and wouldn't help because the fulcrum point essentially remains the same. the inside point of the cone.
Free hubs spread the bearings wider, less drive side leverage. making a longer cone leaves the bearings located inward, same problem..
Of course the fulcrum point would remain the same. The fulcrum point being the bearing. What is changed, with a long nosed cone, is that the bending point would be moved inwards. When you move the bending point inwards away from the fulcrum point, there is now less leverage to bend the axle.
In other words, you are reinforcing the axle (with a threaded sleeve), right where it is most likely to bend.


The fulcrum(pivot) point is the ball bearing. The F is where the frame drop out is. The W is where the bend occurs. When you move W out further away from the pivot point, guess what, it takes more force to bend the axle.

Last edited by icemilkcoffee; 06-23-23 at 11:04 AM.
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Likes For icemilkcoffee:
Old 06-23-23, 11:16 AM
  #50  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 5,939

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3608 Post(s)
Liked 3,027 Times in 1,832 Posts
Originally Posted by abdon
I added turkey wing brake levers...
Why would anyone ever want to add these to a bike??
smd4 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.