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thin or weak new tubes

Old 06-09-23, 05:44 PM
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thin or weak new tubes

Any mechanics, shop owners or anyone who fixes a lot of flats, do you have tubes breaking on where the tube goes down into a concave rim from the bead seat. Any kind or rims new or old. Three different brands of tubes new tubes. It's a new problem from a shop owner I know. He does not have a computer, just a phone. He thinks the tubes may be thinner. He's owned his own shop for 30 years +. Should I post this in a better forum?
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Old 06-09-23, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 2manybikes
Any mechanics, shop owners or anyone who fixes a lot of flats, do you have tubes breaking on where the tube goes down into a concave rim from the bead seat. Any kind or rims new or old. Three different brands of tubes new tubes. It's a new problem from a shop owner I know. He does not have a computer, just a phone. He thinks the tubes may be thinner. He's owned his own shop for 30 years +. Should I post this in a better forum?
What do you mean by "breaking"?
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Old 06-09-23, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
What do you mean by "breaking"?
The ones I saw had about a 1/4" slit in the tube. Right at the inside shoulder of the bead seat. I can ask if there are other symptoms.
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Old 06-09-23, 06:26 PM
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I bought some cheap tubes last year and many split at a seam or the valve stem would start leaking quickly... they felt "slippery", not very stretchy, were shiny, no talc, and oily to the touch... patches didn't stick to them.
Some "new" type of fake rubber.

there have been several complaints on this forum about similar bad tubes.

i've gone with brand name tubes since and had no problem.
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Old 06-09-23, 06:37 PM
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yes don't mess around with Kenda or other el cheepo tubes.

Get Michelin Continental or Vittoria

the extra 2 bucks per tube will save you a lot of frustration

/markp
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Old 06-09-23, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
I bought some cheap tubes last year and many split at a seam or the valve stem would start leaking quickly... they felt "slippery", not very stretchy, were shiny, no talc, and oily to the touch... patches didn't stick to them.
Some "new" type of fake rubber.

there have been several complaints on this forum about similar bad tubes.

i've gone with brand name tubes since and had no problem.
My bad... I forgot he had some leak right at the valve stem. Do you remember the brands of the bad tubes and the ones you like? I read some of the threads before. but can't remember what they were.
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Old 06-09-23, 06:46 PM
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Anyone else remember a brand that had a lot of problems?
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Old 06-09-23, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
yes don't mess around with Kenda or other el cheepo tubes.

Get Michelin Continental or Vittoria

the extra 2 bucks per tube will save you a lot of frustration

/markp
He did mention kenda and two others. I forgot the other two.
Frigging memory!

Last edited by 2manybikes; 06-09-23 at 06:52 PM. Reason: add something
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Old 06-09-23, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 2manybikes
My bad... I forgot he had some leak right at the valve stem. Do you remember the brands of the bad tubes and the ones you like? I read some of the threads before. but can't remember what they were.
they looked like a very good price, but the quality was TERRIBLE... i think they were a "bulk buy" thing, no packaging... MIGHT have been "innova"..i've seen their tires age crack within a year....

best plan is to avoid super-low price "deals" on tubes or tires.
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Old 06-09-23, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mpetry912
yes don't mess around with Kenda or other el cheepo tubes.

Get Michelin Continental or Vittoria

the extra 2 bucks per tube will save you a lot of frustration

/markp
huh.. i just had to toss out two Conti tubes.. the presta valve broke on one for no good reason, and the other began leaking at the valve stem base... a dozen tiny leaks.... both were "new, in box", still had the factory rubber band on them too...and part of a parts haul..... 26x2.3" or so... larger than the std. MTB tube size...Contis... black valve cores.

and for the record.. i've had good luck with kendas, personally.

Last edited by maddog34; 06-09-23 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 06-10-23, 05:56 AM
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Yep, Kenda tubes have been fine for me as well and in the shop. Around 2010-12 we had about 16 cases of Specialized tubes that were defective. I find Quality Bike Products (QBP) tubes are just fine. Tubes from Wallyworld sometimes work and sometimes don't therefore I no longer buy them there.
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Old 06-10-23, 12:28 PM
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The first thing I'd suspect if I found my tube slit like that in the location you said, is that I or whomever installed it did it wrong.

I had a rash of that happening to me 10 or so years ago. Three tubes in a row. Usually it takes three times for something to hit me over they head that I'm doing it wrong. I figured out that as I was rolling the bead of the tire over the rim that it was trapping a piece of the tube between the bead and the bead seat of the rim. Sometimes they survive inflation and a ride or two and other times they blow upon initially airing the tire up.

If you always pretend you do everything correctly, then it makes finding the solution harder. Not that I'm saying you did it wrong, but you need to check on your next tube installs if this is happening. For me the tube usually got caught in the bead seat just before rolling the bead over the rim started to get to the point you think it won't possibly go on.
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Old 06-11-23, 06:47 AM
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Tubes becomes "thin" when stretched to their limits.

I always get the largest tube for the tyre.

For example, for a 26x1.50 tyre, I don't use a 26x1.00/1.50 tube, but a 26x1.50/1.75 tube so it doesn't stretch (much).
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Old 06-11-23, 09:08 AM
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It's part of the Big Tubeless conspiracy. They make almost all wheels tubeless ready now so that they can introduce various shelves and protrusions in the rim that damage tubes for anyone being inclined to not setup for tubeless.
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Old 06-11-23, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
huh.. i just had to toss out two Conti tubes.. the presta valve broke on one for no good reason, and the other began leaking at the valve stem base... a dozen tiny leaks.... both were "new, in box", still had the factory rubber band on them too...and part of a parts haul..... 26x2.3" or so... larger than the std. MTB tube size...Contis... black valve cores.

and for the record.. i've had good luck with kendas, personally.
I buy my tubes at Canadian Tire. All I see is Kenda so I buy them. I found their quality to be 2'nd to none. If they had better ones I would buy them. Price is not a priority for me. They hold air forever, are easy to install, and last decades if you keep them that long. Kenda's lower priced tires are also a good value for general purpose riding.

Last edited by xroadcharlie; 06-11-23 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 06-12-23, 07:08 AM
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I had problems with Performance Bike tubes, where the valve stem attaches to the tube. Some didn't even make it out of the basement. Maybe that's why they went out of business.

Conti or Vitorria tubes now, w/o problems.
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Old 06-12-23, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
It's part of the Big Tubeless conspiracy. They make almost all wheels tubeless ready now so that they can introduce various shelves and protrusions in the rim that damage tubes for anyone being inclined to not setup for tubeless.
I know you are being a little facetious but I don’t think your idea is correct. I have examples (sometimes several) of each of these rims below. The only one that hasn’t suffered rim side flats (yet) is the A23 with the deep internal channel. That rim is used with 23mm and 25mm tires and 23/25mm tubes. The other rims are used with much wider tires and, until recently, the same 23/25mm tubes in the case of 700C rims. I use the A23, Deep V, and Dyad on bikes with 700C tires. I use the Dyad and Mavic XC717 rims with 26” tires, 2.2” tires, and 1.5/1.95” tubes. I’ve had a lot of rim side punctures on all of the smooth profile rims. I even had an internal blowout with the Deep V.

By an “internal blowout”, I mean the tube ripped and expelled all the air rapidly but the tire was never blown off the rim. Particularly scary when it happens at about 25mph on a downhill on the front wheel on a loaded touring bike. I wouldn’t suggest it.



I






I used to be able to run 23/25mm tubes in 32 to 35mm tires without issue but that was 15 to 20 years ago before the widespread adoption of tubeless. The advent of tubeless tires may have caused the tube makers to reduce the amount of rubber that they are using to save money. Because they don’t have as large a market as they used to perhaps they are saving money. I’ve had this problem with all kinds of brands of tubes.

I also think the issue is with the way that the tube fills in the tire. The tube grows towards the tire side first as the tire is filled. After the tube runs up against the tire (red arrows below), it then back fills into the rim channel (green arrow). The part of the tube that backfills stretches more and is thinner than the tire side. The result is very thin rubber on the rim side and cornering pulls at the rim side and tears the tube. When I had the internal blowout, I had just jigzagged around a rumble strip on the shoulder.
l
For the last couple of years, I’ve changed to using tubes that are closer to the tire size and the number of this kind of puncture has fallen off dramatically for me.
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Old 06-12-23, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
It's part of the Big Tubeless conspiracy. They make almost all wheels tubeless ready now so that they can introduce various shelves and protrusions in the rim that damage tubes for anyone being inclined to not setup for tubeless.
I knew there had to be some kind of conspiracy, don't forget to wear your tin foil hat. They can control your mind.

Last edited by 2manybikes; 06-12-23 at 02:44 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-12-23, 03:21 PM
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I also have had good results with Kenda, and poor results with Specialized, seam splits for no reason. I have also had good results with Specialized. Some tubes have outlasted 2+ road tires.
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