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are Bike Frame Crossbar Adaptors bad for the headeset?

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are Bike Frame Crossbar Adaptors bad for the headeset?

Old 08-07-23, 12:09 PM
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are Bike Frame Crossbar Adaptors bad for the headset?



these things that we use to support a bike on a bike rack, so that the bike rides closer to horizontal rather than rear wheel up. since this bar rests under the handlebars, does this stress the headset? hope I explained the question clearly




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Old 08-07-23, 12:32 PM
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I would think it'd be under less stress than having a cyclist on the bike pedaling down a bumpy road. At worst or maybe for the better, you'll find out if the stem needs tightening. But those headset bearings can take a beating.
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Old 08-07-23, 12:43 PM
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Bike weighs 35-ish Lbs.... Human weighs 175-ish lbs...

oh my gawd! you might stress out over your headset! QUIT RIDING YOUR BIKE IMMEDIATELY !!!!
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Old 08-07-23, 02:41 PM
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I wouldn't worry about it the thing I wouldn't put my bike on a Allen rack but that is a separate issue. I haven't heard of anyone having headset issues from using a crossbar adaptor though if you are worried about it get a tray style rack which is a better more stable way to mount the bike but it is doubtful you will have issues unless you have your headset poorly and improperly adjusted but your riding will probably cause most of the problems there.
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Old 08-07-23, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I would think it'd be under less stress than having a cyclist on the bike pedaling down a bumpy road. At worst or maybe for the better, you'll find out if the stem needs tightening. But those headset bearings can take a beating.
just the opposite, mine is feeling less free. slow might describe it
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Old 08-07-23, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
just the opposite, mine is feeling less free. slow might describe it
the adapter has nothing to do with that.

Nothing.

is the headset the type that uses sealed cartridge bearings?
they aren't as "Sealed" as people want to believe... there's a good reason those "seals" are actually called "Dust Covers" by some bearing manufacturers....
some "Cartridge Bearings" come with next to no grease in them....
Do you wash the bike with lots of water?
just curious.

the bearings used in Cartridge bearing headsets use extra-TINY little steel balls.. they Increase Contact Pressures to the Extreme.. they are a convenience, not an advantage. Low Grade Races and Balls cause quicker degradation too.

Old Caged bearing headsets can outlast a bike, with a bi-yearly regrease.. some go for decades without a regrease.... most Cart. bearings go bad after a year of Cyclocross abuse, MTB abuse, frequent washings, or wet commuting.

i consider cart. bearings a fad, not a good upgrade.

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Old 08-07-23, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
the adapter has nothing to do with that.

Nothing.

is the headset the type that uses sealed cartridge bearings?
they aren't as "Sealed" as people want to believe... there's a good reason those "seals" are actually called "Dust Covers" by some bearing manufacturers....
some "Cartridge Bearings" come with next to no grease in them....
Do you wash the bike with lots of water?
just curious.

the bearings used in Cartridge bearing headsets use extra-TINY little steel balls.. they Increase Contact Pressures to the Extreme.. they are a convenience, not an advantage. Low Grade Races and Balls cause quicker degradation too.

Old Caged bearing headsets can outlast a bike, with a bi-yearly regrease.. some go for decades without a regrease.... most Cart. bearings go bad after a year of Cyclocross abuse, MTB abuse, frequent washings, or wet commuting.

i consider cart. bearings a fad, not a good upgrade.
thank you
caged
when I replaced the fork i reused the caged bearings
they were not pristine the last time I saw them
ill try greasing them & grab a photo of what they look like now
i have pics from when I replaced the fork 3? Yrs ago but I’m in my phone now
yes the bike sees bad weather rides but I don’t leave it outside w/o a cover
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Old 08-07-23, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
the adapter has nothing to do with that.

Nothing.

is the headset the type that uses sealed cartridge bearings?
they aren't as "Sealed" as people want to believe... there's a good reason those "seals" are actually called "Dust Covers" by some bearing manufacturers....
some "Cartridge Bearings" come with next to no grease in them....
Do you wash the bike with lots of water?
just curious.

the bearings used in Cartridge bearing headsets use extra-TINY little steel balls.. they Increase Contact Pressures to the Extreme.. they are a convenience, not an advantage. Low Grade Races and Balls cause quicker degradation too.

Old Caged bearing headsets can outlast a bike, with a bi-yearly regrease.. some go for decades without a regrease.... most Cart. bearings go bad after a year of Cyclocross abuse, MTB abuse, frequent washings, or wet commuting.

i consider cart. bearings a fad, not a good upgrade.
see post #24 here

I guess I have to open it up & give it a good look-see
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Old 08-08-23, 07:12 AM
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Does that cross bar have adjustment for the length? Could it be tightened too much and bend something like the steerer tube over time? Otherwise if there isn't some physical deformation of the cap on the headset of the steerer tube, then I'd be all for just saying something else is up. Possibly exacerbated by the crossbar, but not because of the crossbar.

Anyway, I'm just guessing. Never used one.
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Old 08-08-23, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by maddog34
they aren't as "Sealed" as people want to believe... there's a good reason those "seals" are actually called "Dust Covers" by some bearing manufacturers....
some "Cartridge Bearings" come with next to no grease in them....
An oft repeated statement that is usually wrong. Cartridge bearings come in all kinds of flavors from unsealed/uncovered bearings to bearings with contact seals on both sides. The “sealed” bearing (full contact seal) is truly sealed against weather and water. They can even be submerged in water as you’ll find in submersible pumps. Full contact seal bearings are used on just about every motor vehicle made for the last 20 to 30 years and can go for hundreds of thousands of miles without service under duty cycles that bicycles can’t even approach. Long gone are the days motor vehicles having Zerk fittings and the need to regularly regrease the suspension system.

Some of the seals…called noncontact seals…used on bicycles are less “sealed” than full contact seals but that is so that they roll easier. Even those are still sealed, however.

the bearings used in Cartridge bearing headsets use extra-TINY little steel balls.. they Increase Contact Pressures to the Extreme.. they are a convenience, not an advantage. Low Grade Races and Balls cause quicker degradation too.
The balls in a cartridge bearing are slightly smaller than a caged bearing. They aren’t “extra-TINY”. You can open up a cartridge bearing and look at the bearings. Headset bearings are smaller but headset bearings are generally small bearing anyway. Even with the smaller bearing, a cartridge bearing isn’t delicate nor prone to failure. A 6802 bearing…the one commonly used in hubs…can take a dynamic load of almost 470 lbs. That’s more than even heavily loaded tourist put on the bike.

​​​​​​​Old Caged bearing headsets can outlast a bike, with a bi-yearly regrease.. some go for decades without a regrease.... most Cart. bearings go bad after a year of Cyclocross abuse, MTB abuse, frequent washings, or wet commuting.
I’ve never had a caged bearing headset last all that long. I have had cartridge bearing headsets last many more than a year. My commuter bike has a headset from 2006 that has never had anything done to it. It has over 20,000 miles on it. It’s been through a whole lot of abuse and is still going strong. I have several mountain bikes with cartridge bearing headsets that are more severely abused and they have zero problems. That’s largely the reason I uses them on all my bicycles. They are worry free and very robust.

​​​​​​​i consider cart. bearings a fad, not a good upgrade.
​​​​​​​And you’d be wrong.
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Old 08-08-23, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
An oft repeated statement that is usually wrong. Cartridge bearings come in all kinds of flavors from unsealed/uncovered bearings to bearings with contact seals on both sides. The “sealed” bearing (full contact seal) is truly sealed against weather and water. They can even be submerged in water as you’ll find in submersible pumps. Full contact seal bearings are used on just about every motor vehicle made for the last 20 to 30 years and can go for hundreds of thousands of miles without service under duty cycles that bicycles can’t even approach. Long gone are the days motor vehicles having Zerk fittings and the need to regularly regrease the suspension system.

Some of the seals…called noncontact seals…used on bicycles are less “sealed” than full contact seals but that is so that they roll easier. Even those are still sealed, however.



The balls in a cartridge bearing are slightly smaller than a caged bearing. They aren’t “extra-TINY”. You can open up a cartridge bearing and look at the bearings. Headset bearings are smaller but headset bearings are generally small bearing anyway. Even with the smaller bearing, a cartridge bearing isn’t delicate nor prone to failure. A 6802 bearing…the one commonly used in hubs…can take a dynamic load of almost 470 lbs. That’s more than even heavily loaded tourist put on the bike.



I’ve never had a caged bearing headset last all that long. I have had cartridge bearing headsets last many more than a year. My commuter bike has a headset from 2006 that has never had anything done to it. It has over 20,000 miles on it. It’s been through a whole lot of abuse and is still going strong. I have several mountain bikes with cartridge bearing headsets that are more severely abused and they have zero problems. That’s largely the reason I uses them on all my bicycles. They are worry free and very robust.



​​​​​​​And you’d be wrong.
I now clearly recall WHY i blocked you months ago.
however, I love it when you contradict your own replies.

here, Cyco.. read up on one term you abused so poorly...
https://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6504156_c...amic-load.html

then know that you aren't the be-all, end-all that you believe yourself to be.
ps.. you are now on my "full ignore mode" list again.
Rant away.

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Old 08-08-23, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
thank you
caged
when I replaced the fork i reused the caged bearings
they were not pristine the last time I saw them
ill try greasing them & grab a photo of what they look like now
i have pics from when I replaced the fork 3? Yrs ago but I’m in my phone now
yes the bike sees bad weather rides but I don’t leave it outside w/o a cover
Your bike thanks you for not always leaving it outside, even under a cover.
even tiny little spots on a ball will cause trouble in a Bearing Assy. A good look with a magnifying glass or eye loupe will often reveal defects on them. Some greases are known to harden over time, causing a "slow feeling" which later turns to a notchy feeling...
Overtightening a bearing can damage the Races, especially if those Races are Aluminum cups..... add grease degradation, and a problem becomes more obvious.

a Very Popular Bike Grease is known to seperate over time.. the thinner component literally oozes out of the thicker stuff in it.. the remaining thick stuff can make a bearing feel "slow", and lacks Bearing Surface Flow Back capability....
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Old 08-08-23, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Does that cross bar have adjustment for the length? Could it be tightened too much and bend something like the steerer tube over time? Otherwise if there isn't some physical deformation of the cap on the headset of the steerer tube, then I'd be all for just saying something else is up. Possibly exacerbated by the crossbar, but not because of the crossbar.

Anyway, I'm just guessing. Never used one.
thank you
the unit I’ve been using for years does not have tension. You set the length & lock it w/ a QR lever
the units I use on family bikes does have spring loaded tension, but not much. I just started using one of those for my MTB

I guess it’s something else. I bought the bike used & have been using it, so probably just needs new lube & a closer look

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Old 08-08-23, 05:13 PM
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looks like caged headset bearings are cheap enough
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Old 08-08-23, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
caged
when I replaced the fork i reused the caged bearings
they were not pristine the last time I saw them
Caged balls are a convenience for the bike assembler, loose balls work better as there's room for more of them, which spreads the load better.
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Old 08-09-23, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by grumpus
Caged balls are a convenience for the bike assembler, loose balls work better as there's room for more of them, which spreads the load better.
in a headset? how in the world would they stay in place, while I fumble putting the thing together?
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Old 08-09-23, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
in a headset? how in the world would they stay in place, while I fumble putting the thing together?
You apply grease to the bearing races first. The grease holds the bearing balls in place.
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Old 08-09-23, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
You apply grease to the bearing races first. The grease holds the bearing balls in place.
The balls stay better in the "cups" (outer races). For the lower headset bearing, turn the frame upside-down and place the balls in hte greased cup. Insert the fork, then turn the bike right-side up and do the same with the top bearing.
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Old 08-09-23, 07:17 AM
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Trakhak
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thank you
I've done loose wheel bearings, but when I was working on the fork I felt too clumsy. doubt I'll try loose bearings there. but super interesting to learn about!
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