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Rim replaced after broken spokes.

Old 08-10-23, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
Well radial is what I meant. Thanks. Now I see they are 3 cross.
So if that's what they are with NDS all radial, then I change my vote to garbage that death trap wheel.
So itís a crap wheel?
Why would someone have a wheel built like that? Crap builder and a rider who knows as little as I do?
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Old 08-10-23, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
So it’s a crap wheel?
Why would someone have a wheel built like that? Crap builder and a rider who knows as little as I do?
The only thing failing is the spokes. Possibly a bad batch with no builder error?
Respoke it and ride.
Might be a good time to service the bearings if "that type". (cup & cone)

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 08-10-23 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 08-10-23, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
The only thing failing is the spokes.
Respoke it and ride.
It was described as a death trap wheel.
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Old 08-10-23, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
6th
Lots of fancy sounding technical explanations, but really, it boils down to cool factor.

With 3 spokes crossing in the same place, you might look for worn notches at the crosses if that's where the spokes broke. However if they didn't break exactly there, it's still a mystery.
Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
I'll be darned, there are 30 spokes and that is a goofball build alright, that I haven't noticed before.
There's 20 spokes with 1 cross and 10 spokes straight pull. The broken ones are all STRAIGHT pull.
So all I can say is this wheel sucks for big loads. So closet this wheel and keep using the heavy one. IMO
Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Those are NOT straight pull spokes. They are radially laced.
The other spokes are cross 2 AFAICT.
Just because you haven't seen it before doesn't make it anything.
Twice as many spokes on the DS than the NDS is not a new concept, although I've never seen 20-10.
Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
Well radial is what I meant. Thanks. Now I see they are 3 cross.
So if that's what they are with NDS all radial, then I change my vote to garbage that death trap wheel.
Finally someone says 3X! That's what I see. 3X drive side, radial non-drive isn't radical but probably not the best for high weight. Still, the manner of the spoke breakage makes me think along FB's line of thought; that these spokes have issues.

My experience with DT has been excellent. I see the old Wheelsmith (I hope they are still around or come back), DT and Sapim as three quality spokes and I make my decision based on gauges and butts offered, price and availability
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Old 08-10-23, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
It was described as a death trap wheel.
People say all sorts of things. You've had lots of opinions on this and your September threads.

In the end, you'll never get a solid consensus, because life doesn't work that way.

So, now.take the time to consider, sort the wheat from the chaff, and start baking.
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Old 08-10-23, 09:52 PM
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I'm pretty sure my Rohloff spokes are plain 14g DT Swiss, only my lock broke 1 spoke. Awesome Dyad rims. No complaints.
My last build was a new front SA XL-FDD so the old wheel went on my new Simcoe roadster. All I could find quick in Canada of 2.3/ 2.0 was Sapim spokes. They have a silly big head that looks so dumb and I doubt they add much, but they are doing fine. The 2.3 butt part is longer tho, better I guess. The bend hook is longer too.

BEST spokes IMO are 2.3/ 2.0 Wheelsmith's. They are mostly what I have on my heavy SA drum brake wheels. 5 stars+.
I actually re-crossed from 4 to 3 after 28,000 miles. I had cut the threads off and that's where the new threads started.
Rohloff won't allow them.

Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 08-10-23 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 08-10-23, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Finally someone says 3X! That's what I see. 3X drive side, radial non-drive....
I was sure I saw X3 the first time I looked at the pic, but my brain wouldn't see it the 2nd time.
I guess if one is going with that method, 30 makes more sense then 27 or less.
30 "efficiently placed" spokes may do a better job than 32 regularly spaced spokes?
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Old 08-11-23, 06:30 AM
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I will take the wheel to my lbs. I trust the guy there. If he says it is good for a rebuild O will have the spokes replaced.
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Old 08-11-23, 07:45 AM
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I'm just wondering what the hell happens when the spoke breaks and you are going 30 mph??
Both halves clink the fork and brake 300 times before you can stop??
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Old 08-11-23, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
So itís a crap wheel?
Why would someone have a wheel built like that? Crap builder and a rider who knows as little as I do?
Two to one drive side vs non drive side is a sound concept. It puts the strength on the side that carries the larger part of the load and addresses the issue of the non drive side spokes that we often struggle to get up to adequate tension without over tensioning the drive side.
If I were building such a wheel from scratch with J bend spokes I would go 3 or possibly 4 cross on the drive side and two cross on the non drive side but radial on the non drive does not make it a bad wheel.
Almost all of the triplet wheels I have built have been straight pull which takes the lacing pattern decision out of the builderís hands as the hubís spoke holes orient the spokes to where they need to go and every one has been radial non drive side.
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Old 08-11-23, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53
I'm just wondering what the hell happens when the spoke breaks and you are going 30 mph??
Both halves clink the fork and brake 300 times before you can stop??
How childish.
Ignore List.
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Old 08-11-23, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
So it’s a crap wheel?
Why would someone have a wheel built like that? Crap builder and a rider who knows as little as I do?
What if you ignore this one person who has not offered ANYTHING useful?
What would be the consensus of the rest of the posters?
Try that eliminating any one single poster and see what the consensus of the rest is. Do that to all who responded.
You should be able to figure out who you should ignore.

Typically on a rear wheel, the NDS spokes have around 50-70% of the tension that the DS spokes have. The more cogs, the lower the %.
The concept of using 1/2 as many spokes on the NDS is so that the NDS spokes have a more similar state of tension/elongation as the DS spokes.

Often with heavy riders, lower gears & mashing etc, the NDS spokes on a "conventional" wheel will reach a point of "slackness", allowing nipples to unwind.

Think of work horses pulling a plow.
They can ease into the load and remove all "slack" before applying full power or they can make a running start and break things and possibly injure themselves.
Undertensioned NDS spokes are like a running start that overflexes the J bends and results in eventual metal fatigue WAY EARLIER then it should occur.

Another method (one I use) is to use a thinner spoke on the NDS which will result in a bit "more equal" state of elongation to the DS.

BTW, have you priced that bike? I seriously doubt they would install "crap" wheels.
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Old 08-11-23, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
I am down to 238 and dropping.
Kicking!
Get it rebuilt with 3 cross. My riding buddy is a strong clyde, and repairing broken spokes is part of his maintenance.
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Old 08-11-23, 03:59 PM
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I dropped it off at my local shop. The lead mechanic is a good one. I am having all of the spokes replaced. He said they use DT Swiss spokes. He also said there was nothing wrong with the way it was built. He did count the spokes after I said it had 30. He said that is unusual. He didnít say exactly what but he said it was some kind of strategy.
I told him I am not in any hurry. It has to cool off some before I take it for a ride, I also would like to lose another 20 pounds before I am comfortable with the load on the wheel. It will be ready when I am.
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Old 08-11-23, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
What if you ignore this one person who has not offered ANYTHING useful?
What would be the consensus of the rest of the posters?
Try that eliminating any one single poster and see what the consensus of the rest is. Do that to all who responded.
You should be able to figure out who you should ignore.

Typically on a rear wheel, the NDS spokes have around 50-70% of the tension that the DS spokes have. The more cogs, the lower the %.
The concept of using 1/2 as many spokes on the NDS is so that the NDS spokes have a more similar state of tension/elongation as the DS spokes.

Often with heavy riders, lower gears & mashing etc, the NDS spokes on a "conventional" wheel will reach a point of "slackness", allowing nipples to unwind.

Think of work horses pulling a plow.
They can ease into the load and remove all "slack" before applying full power or they can make a running start and break things and possibly injure themselves.
Undertensioned NDS spokes are like a running start that overflexes the J bends and results in eventual metal fatigue WAY EARLIER then it should occur.

Another method (one I use) is to use a thinner spoke on the NDS which will result in a bit "more equal" state of elongation to the DS.

BTW, have you priced that bike? I seriously doubt they would install "crap" wheels.
I bought the bike used. I have no idea if the wheels are oem or something the previous owner had built.
I have also noticed that one poster seems to contradict everyone else. I am still learning who to pay attention to. I do tend to ask questions, read the answers, then make up my own mind. When there is contradictory info I check with someone like the guy at my local shop. I hate to pester him though.
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Old 08-11-23, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
... I also would like to lose another 20 pounds before I am comfortable with the load on the wheel. It will be ready when I am.
Ask your mechanic what they think.
They should have an idea of the "stoutness" etc. of the rim.
They may think it's totally adequate.
If riding smooth pavement only, you can get by with a lighter wheel. Run into curbs etc********** Not so much.
Funny how the censor replaced 3 ?'s with 10 *'s
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Old 08-11-23, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Ask your mechanic what they think.
They should have an idea of the "stoutness" etc. of the rim.
They may think it's totally adequate.
If riding smooth pavement only, you can get by with a lighter wheel. Run into curbs etc********** Not so much.
Funny how the censor replaced 3 ?'s with 10 *'s
He didnít sound worried about my weight. I told him I would buy a new wheelset if needed but he said that wasnít necessary. He said the build is fine.
Auto system censors have funny ideas sometimes.
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Old 08-11-23, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
he didnít sound worried about my weight. I told him i would buy a new wheelset if needed but he said that wasnít necessary. He said the build is fine.
Auto system censors have funny ideas sometimes.
+1
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Old 08-11-23, 05:35 PM
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One thing I noticed that I thought was curious is the 2 spokes that had been replaced and the latest broken spoke were all on the nds side with 10 spokes.
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Old 08-11-23, 07:59 PM
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I am curious about something else. A friendís wife died several years ago and he gave her bike to my wife. It is a carbon Cannondale Synapse. Iím not sure of the year but I think 2014. She doesnít ride it due to some medical problems.
I looked at the wheels on that bike- Mavic Ksyrium Elite rims with Mavic Ksyrium Elite hubs. The rear wheel only has 20 spokes. What would be the weight limit on a wheel with that few spokes?
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Old 08-11-23, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
.....
. The rear wheel only has 20 spokes. What would be the weight limit on a wheel with that few spokes?
That's flawed thinking.

For a smooth rider on California pavement, virtually no limit. OTOH they wouldn't last at all with certain light riders on suburban Chicago or NY roads.
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Old 08-11-23, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
That's flawed thinking.

For a smooth rider on California pavement, virtually no limit. OTOH they wouldn't last at all with certain light riders on suburban Chicago or NY roads.
How about Texas roads sorta maintained?
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