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Very bad BB problem. seized and broken teeth.

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Very bad BB problem. seized and broken teeth.

Old 11-16-23, 10:47 AM
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Very bad BB problem. seized and broken teeth.

I have a tandem (Bike Friday) with a bottom bracket that was clearly seized with rust. When I took the bike apart there was water in the seat tube, so must have been standing water above the BB. I soaked the whole operation in PB Blaster and let it sit. Clamped the frame down to the bench and tried to free the BB nut on the drive side. Non-drive side was easily loosened. But on the drive side I had to try increasingly longer cheater bars. Thought it was moving but instead the teeth for the removal tool tore their counterparts out of the BB. So I can free the non drive side, but the drive side has absolutely nothing to grab onto and it's hopelessly seized. Any suggestions?
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Old 11-16-23, 11:38 AM
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Did you turn the tool/cup in the correct direction to loosen? (The common Eng BB thread direction for the drive side is left hand, not right handed).

There's a similar thread here Getting medieval on an adjustable cup. Ideas? - Bike Forums Once one cup is removed working on the frozen other one becomes vastly easier. Clamping methods (I have both the Kingsbridge and the UBI cup vises which are commercially made versions of the Sheldon Brown design) that install in the BB shell and grip the cup via it's end wall are able to be tried and the next step of grinding away a section of the cup is assessable too. Andy
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Old 11-16-23, 05:19 PM
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post a photo and some BF members will weigh in with some possible creative fixes
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Old 11-16-23, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by brooklyn_bike
post a photo and some BF members will weigh in with some possible creative fixes
Exactly what's needed.
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Old 11-16-23, 08:28 PM
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Huge +1 on the turning of the tool. Also something that can help before it is stripped out is an impact gun, I wouldn't use it for a tightening role and wouldn't use it too often for loosening but it can really help on those tough ones. Most people probably would abuse it so be wise it is not really a bicycle tool but can be really helpful in these small instances and then for the future put plenty of grease in there.
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Old 11-16-23, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jtnb1972
Any suggestions?
Originally Posted by brooklyn_bike
post a photo and some BF members will weigh in with some possible creative fixes
Originally Posted by redshift1
Exactly what's needed.
...photos are really very helpful in this situation. I know it seems like you've described your BB well enough, but there's a great deal of variation in the stuff that's out there. Pictures save time in the long run. In terms of destructive removal, the various methods vary with the design of your bb unit.
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Old 11-16-23, 09:42 PM
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I think figuring out if it was being turned the wrong way or not is a pretty good first step.
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Old 11-16-23, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I think figuring out if it was being turned the wrong way or not is a pretty good first step.
yes, that's right. the drive side cup will be a wrong way "left hand" thread. If the flats are rounded off get a big bolt and nut with some washers following the Sheldon Brown technique. Tool Tips--Bottom Bracket Cups (sheldonbrown.com)Text and pic from that site follow:

The tool is an imitation of a $40 shop tool that fits into the fixed cup as a crank spindle would, and pinches the cup. You apply unscrewing force to the tool, and it transfers this force to the cup with this tight friction fit.

The tool consists of a large bolt, a nut or two, and a few washers. The size of the bolt is not particularly critical, as long as the bolt is strong enough not to break, but small enough to fit through the hole in the cup. I used to use an ordinary 1/2-inch, 13 TPI hex bolt (also called a "cap screw"), which served me well for quite a while. It finally met its match on friend's Schwinn that had an unusually tight fixed cup; the bolt snapped in two before I could remove the cup.

Now I use a 5/8-inch 18 TPI hex bolt 1 1/2inches long, with a nut, a flat washer, and four lockwashers. The 5/8-inch size is the largest standard size that will fit through the hole in the cup. This bolt and nut both take a 15/16-inch wrench. With my 1/2 inch drive Craftsman six-point socket set, the 15/16-inch socket is also the largest size that will fit into a normal bottom bracket shell.

If you have some other brand of socket, check the fit before you buy the bolt and nut-you might need the next size down (9/16-inch).
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Old 11-16-23, 10:08 PM
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The OPs description sounds very much like a Shimano cartridge bb with a spline cup tool. So the spindle is not going to be coming out for cup access.
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Old 11-16-23, 10:31 PM
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[working to try to post photo but Iím too much of a newbie. Need ten posts to be able. Hereís at least two!
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Old 11-16-23, 11:10 PM
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Don't forget to try freezing it too...



Or use a can of Liquid Air by just turning it upside down.

Oh... Here's another one... My nephew was trying to replace the cups on an old Peugeot Mixti. That right side was stuck-STUCK! Right before giving up, and knowing it was reverse threaded, he tapped the cup's hole for a big bolt and put an impact driver on it. He said after three knocks it spun right off...
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Old 11-17-23, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
The OPs description sounds very much like a Shimano cartridge bb with a spline cup tool. So the spindle is not going to be coming out for cup access.
OP states the NDS will come out. A cartridge can be disassembled. it's not like they are 1 piece units. They were put together, they'll come apart.
With the NDS cup removed, pounding/pressing on the spindle will either push the spindle out of the bearing or the bearing out of the cup.

This isn't a Shimano but they're all built pretty much the same.

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Old 11-17-23, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
OP states the NDS will come out. A cartridge can be disassembled. it's not like they are 1 piece units. They were put together, they'll come apart.
With the NDS cup removed, pounding/pressing on the spindle will either push the spindle out of the bearing or the bearing out of the cup.

This isn't a Shimano but they're all built pretty much the same.
Here's a Shimano. Some did have removeable DS cups, most do not. It is just part of the body:



Dunno what the OP actually has, but I think it would be better to wait for that information, and the information about removal direction and frame model before advising him to hit the spindle with a hammer or weld stuff.
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Old 11-17-23, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Here's a Shimano. Some did have removeable DS cups, most do not. It is just part of the body:



Dunno what the OP actually has, but I think it would be better to wait for that information, and the information about removal direction and frame model before advising him to hit the spindle with a hammer or weld stuff.
It's a section of the body. Still not 1 piece. But yes, it'd be nice to see a photo of what they're actually working with.

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Old 11-17-23, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
It's a section of the body. Still not 1 piece. But yes, it'd be nice to see a photo of what they're actually working with.

https://youtu.be/Aa5RNxyOdsU?t=356
I've heard of 1 piece cranks, but not 1 piece BBs...
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Old 11-17-23, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelreason
I've heard of 1 piece cranks, but not 1 piece BBs...
The point was that a cartridge can be disassembled in situ if the option of working to remove the DS cup without the spindle in place made sense in the proper situation.
As has been mentioned, we don't have enough information from the OP to discern exactly what they are working on, and if that would make sense. A situation like careful destructive removal of the cup.
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Old 11-17-23, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
It's a section of the body. Still not 1 piece. But yes, it'd be nice to see a photo of what they're actually working with.
I didn't say it was one piece. I said that it might not have a right cup, allowing you to just pop the body out with few mallet taps.
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Old 11-17-23, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jtnb1972
[working to try to post photo but Iím too much of a newbie. Need ten posts to be able. Hereís at least two!
...you can create an album, and put the photos there.
I just went to your account, and it says no albums have been created.
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Old 11-17-23, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jtnb1972
[working to try to post photo but Iím too much of a newbie. Need ten posts to be able. Hereís at least two!
Why not just answer some basic questions in the meantime?

1. Which direction did you turn the drive side cup?
2. What brand and model crank is it?
3. What brand and model bike is it?
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Old 11-17-23, 07:59 PM
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I saw the title of this thread and thought a seized bottom bracket led to some dental injuries!
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Old 11-18-23, 09:39 AM
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10/10 posts
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Old 11-18-23, 09:42 AM
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https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/548708/photos

Photos in this album.

I think the original diagnosis is right: turned the cup the wrong way. Sheared off the teeth. So now what?
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Old 11-18-23, 10:05 AM
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I would clamp the tool in and try the correct rotation
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Old 11-18-23, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jtnb1972
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/548708/photos

Photos in this album.

I think the original diagnosis is right: turned the cup the wrong way. Sheared off the teeth. So now what?
Looks like you sheared off the flange, too. Or are those pictures from opposite sides?

Anyway, if the part that sheared off is black plastic, hammer the spindle out toward the left and then grab the cup with whatever and turn it out. Or cut it out.

That is, after trying to simply turn it out as Mr. 66 suggests.
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Old 11-18-23, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Looks like you sheared off the flange, too. Or are those pictures from opposite sides?

Opposite sides. The black one is NDS, the chrome one is DS and all the teeth are sheared, so the BB cup tool i have (Shimano) doesn't engage.
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