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Campy cassette on Shimano Zipp hub

Old 12-03-23, 03:02 PM
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Campy cassette on Shimano Zipp hub

I want to get a Campy cassette onto a Zipp hub from 404 wheels that is currently Shimano. Is this possible?
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Old 12-03-23, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lionheart
I want to get a Campy cassette onto a Zipp hub from 404 wheels that is currently Shimano. Is this possible?
Not as things now stand, because freehub splines and dimensions are different.

You need to check whether Zipp offers a Campy freehub for your hub. If so, then you have options.
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Old 12-03-23, 04:36 PM
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Yes. The question is really which hub you have and then finding the correct generation Campy freehub for it:

https://www.sram.com/en/service/arti...eehub-timeline
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Old 12-04-23, 12:42 PM
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If it's 11 speed Campy an 11 speed Shimano cassette will work
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Old 12-04-23, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris
If it's 11 speed Campy an 11 speed Shimano cassette will work
Splines are way different between Shimano and Campagnolo, so the cassettes can't be swapped between these hubs.

Shifting performance:

9 or 10 speed: the spacing between cassette cogs (sprockets) is different, so the shifting won't work correctly.

11 speed: Both Shimano and Campagnolo have essentially identical spacing, so a Shimano 11-speed hub and cassette work fine with Campagnolo. I have an 11-32 Ultegra on my 11-speed Campagnolo.
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Old 12-04-23, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris
If it's 11 speed Campy an 11 speed Shimano cassette will work
11 speed shifting will work with either campy or shimano cassettes as spacing same (or same enough not too make a difference) this is a different question

see answer above
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Old 12-04-23, 05:40 PM
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Just to clarify, the wheels are 10 speed Shimano. I was hoping I could change the freehub body(?). I think the page that Kontact linked to gives the answer. Sadly I don’t have the wheels yet. I want to buy them if I can switch it over to accept a Campy 10 speed cassette. I’m no expert. That’s why I’m asking. Thanks!
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Old 12-04-23, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lionheart
Just to clarify, the wheels are 10 speed Shimano. I was hoping I could change the freehub body(?). I think the page that Kontact linked to gives the answer. Sadly I donít have the wheels yet. I want to buy them if I can switch it over to accept a Campy 10 speed cassette. Iím no expert. Thatís why Iím asking. Thanks!
The key information you need is the hub model and generation/year.

Or, you can see if you can find all the generations of Campy freehubs and then go back and buy the appropriate one later.
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Old 12-05-23, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rm -rf
Splines are way different between Shimano and Campagnolo, so the cassettes can't be swapped between these hubs.

Shifting performance:

9 or 10 speed: the spacing between cassette cogs (sprockets) is different, so the shifting won't work correctly.

11 speed: Both Shimano and Campagnolo have essentially identical spacing, so a Shimano 11-speed hub and cassette work fine with Campagnolo. I have an 11-32 Ultegra on my 11-speed Campagnolo.
I guess I wasn't clear, rather than buying a campy freehub body for the wheels just use a Shimano cassette, provided it's 11sp.
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Old 12-06-23, 04:09 AM
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Ambrosio

Ambrosio produces/produced (?) a 10speed Campagnolo spacing cassette that fits onto a Shimano spline. I bought a few in the UK a while back; occasionally they are available from different sources...
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Old 12-06-23, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tdh
Ambrosio produces/produced (?) a 10speed Campagnolo spacing cassette that fits onto a Shimano spline. I bought a few in the UK a while back; occasionally they are available from different sources...
If you used Shimano 10spd cogs with Shimano or Sram 9 speed spacers (off a worn out cassette), the result would be pretty much Campy 10 spacing. And you only need to re-space the middle 8 cogs because the Hi and Low stops will take care of the index locations for those.
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Old 12-08-23, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
If you used Shimano 10spd cogs with Shimano or Sram 9 speed spacers (off a worn out cassette), the result would be pretty much Campy 10 spacing. And you only need to re-space the middle 8 cogs because the Hi and Low stops will take care of the index locations for those.
Thanks for the tip...however, I am one of those guys who don't mind the occasional mis-shift, i.e. I run Shimano wheel sets with Campagnolo RDs and ergopowers without hesitation. I just bought those Ambrosios as they were really affordable.
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Old 12-08-23, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tdh
Thanks for the tip...however, I am one of those guys who don't mind the occasional mis-shift, i.e. I run Shimano wheel sets with Campagnolo RDs and ergopowers without hesitation. I just bought those Ambrosios as they were really affordable.
"However" what? I made a suggestion for how to best use Shimano wheelsets with Campy for free. Shimano 10 with Campy shifts fine, but it clatters around and sounds terrible.
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Old 12-08-23, 08:30 AM
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Sure...that's what Dremel's are for...
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Old 12-12-23, 09:13 PM
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I've had a Campy 10sp setup for 18 years now (I can't believe the bike I bought for my 50th birthday is still the one I use). A few years back I bought a Wahoo Kickr Core trainer and it came only with a Shimano 11sp freehub. The thing about 11sp hubs is that the are actually spaced at 131mm instead of 130, and that 1mm makes the difference. What I did is take a Shimano Ultegra 10sp cassette (only Ultegra has loose cogs) and add additional .2mm spacers between each free cog. Cogs 1&2 are mated together but loose, and cogs 9&10 are on a spider so no spacers there. That's 7 spacers or 1.4mm total. So that 11sp hub with the extra millimeter is now only .4mm short whereas a 10sp would be the full 1.4mm short. Why does that matter? Well the lock ring needs to grab onto something and it may not have enough thread without that extra mm. The limit screws take care of 1 & 10, and all the rest are spaced perfectly. On top of the shifting working perfectly, the trainer cassette is lined up perfectly with the wheel cassette. I can swap back and forth between wheel and trainer without adjustment.

When I bought this bike I had a pair of nice Shimano wheels that I wanted to use and the bike shop said you could try one of the conversion cassettes but you'll run out of room. Besides, he said, why would you want to kluge your new $3000+ bike. He sold me a pair of inexpensive Campy wheels. I still have those but I also found a pair of lightweight wheels that I rebuilt myself, probably about 15 years ago already. I've never had to true them after the initial break in ride. I live in NYC too so they aren't treated all that well either.
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Old 12-12-23, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster
I've had a Campy 10sp setup for 18 years now (I can't believe the bike I bought for my 50th birthday is still the one I use). A few years back I bought a Wahoo Kickr Core trainer and it came only with a Shimano 11sp freehub. The thing about 11sp hubs is that the are actually spaced at 131mm instead of 130, and that 1mm makes the difference. What I did is take a Shimano Ultegra 10sp cassette (only Ultegra has loose cogs) and add additional .2mm spacers between each free cog. Cogs 1&2 are mated together but loose, and cogs 9&10 are on a spider so no spacers there. That's 7 spacers or 1.4mm total. So that 11sp hub with the extra millimeter is now only .4mm short whereas a 10sp would be the full 1.4mm short. Why does that matter? Well the lock ring needs to grab onto something and it may not have enough thread without that extra mm. The limit screws take care of 1 & 10, and all the rest are spaced perfectly. On top of the shifting working perfectly, the trainer cassette is lined up perfectly with the wheel cassette. I can swap back and forth between wheel and trainer without adjustment.

When I bought this bike I had a pair of nice Shimano wheels that I wanted to use and the bike shop said you could try one of the conversion cassettes but you'll run out of room. Besides, he said, why would you want to kluge your new $3000+ bike. He sold me a pair of inexpensive Campy wheels. I still have those but I also found a pair of lightweight wheels that I rebuilt myself, probably about 15 years ago already. I've never had to true them after the initial break in ride. I live in NYC too so they aren't treated all that well either.
Sounds kinda like your read my post, but you don't need an 11 speed freehub. 10 speed Shimano compatible freehubs will take at least an extra 1mm spacer easily, and you only need to widen 7 of the spacers.
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Old 12-13-23, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Sounds kinda like your read my post, but you don't need an 11 speed freehub. 10 speed Shimano compatible freehubs will take at least an extra 1mm spacer easily, and you only need to widen 7 of the spacers.
But an 11sp has an additional 1mm. It gives you a lot of leeway in what works and works well. I know that people did use conversion cassettes and made it work, but I wonder now whether wheel swaps were possible without adjustments as a real Campy wheel wouldn't line up the same as a Shimano wheel with the conversion cassette. I also wonder if certain frames would be too close to the cassette if it overhung too much. Anyway, what works, works. When I consider how I can't even put a 25mm tire on the bike unless it is lined up perfectly I realize how tight it all is.

And those Shimano wheels that I ended up not using? I put those on my old Davidson that still had friction shifters. It doesn't care what spacing you have. 10sp cassettes with friction shifters works really well because a lot of what we gained with indexing also works without it with the ramps on the cassette and the chains that match it. And with so little space between gears you don't find yourself in between like you did in the old 6sp days.
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Old 12-13-23, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster
But an 11sp has an additional 1mm. It gives you a lot of leeway in what works and works well. I know that people did use conversion cassettes and made it work, but I wonder now whether wheel swaps were possible without adjustments as a real Campy wheel wouldn't line up the same as a Shimano wheel with the conversion cassette. I also wonder if certain frames would be too close to the cassette if it overhung too much. Anyway, what works, works. When I consider how I can't even put a 25mm tire on the bike unless it is lined up perfectly I realize how tight it all is.

And those Shimano wheels that I ended up not using? I put those on my old Davidson that still had friction shifters. It doesn't care what spacing you have. 10sp cassettes with friction shifters works really well because a lot of what we gained with indexing also works without it with the ramps on the cassette and the chains that match it. And with so little space between gears you don't find yourself in between like you did in the old 6sp days.
1mm lateral displacement is not an "alignment issue". Chainline is not that precise.
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Old 12-14-23, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
1mm lateral displacement is not an "alignment issue". Chainline is not that precise.
It's not chainline it is derailleur alignment. You need to set the limit screw somewhere and where that first cog sits should line up with a standard Campy wheel. If the wheel is the only one you have it doesn't matter. In my case it was the trainer cassette lining up with the wheel cassette that made swapping it on and off the trainer really easy.
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Old 12-15-23, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster
It's not chainline it is derailleur alignment. You need to set the limit screw somewhere and where that first cog sits should line up with a standard Campy wheel. If the wheel is the only one you have it doesn't matter. In my case it was the trainer cassette lining up with the wheel cassette that made swapping it on and off the trainer really easy.
Two Shimano cassettes aren't going to necessarily line up either. It is very common with trainers that have their own cassette to either have to readjust the rear derailleur OR add spacers behind either the wheel cassette or trainer cassette so they match each other. And this is also true when you have multiple wheelsets for one bike.

At the last shop I worked at we offered a service to get cassettes and brake rotors on multiple wheels to match for this very reason. Unless they hubs are the same, it is dumb luck if they all line up. It just isn't as critical with cassettes as it is with brake rotors.
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Old 12-15-23, 07:26 PM
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All of my Campy cassettes/wheels/trainers always did without any adjustment. This is an argument I had with another forum member once before. There is a standard spacing specified by Shimano where the cassette should be and if it isn't it is non-compliant. That doesn't mean it won't work. But if you have a Shimano freehub on a wheel with a Shimano cassette they should line up. If you have any other brand they may not. If you have an 11sp hub you should have a 1mm spacer behind for 10sp and a 1.8mm spacer for 9sp. And you'll need to spread the frame 1mm, barely noticeable. If you have a 9sp freehub you can't run 10sp but can run a 9 of 10 cassette. I had a 7sp mtb wheel that could take 9sp but I had a 10sp system and I did that. It wasn't long before I built a new 10sp wheel though. I have no idea whether it would line up with any other 10sp wheel because 10sp Dynasys wasn't widespread. And it was on a 135 frame too of course.

Brake rotors are an issue I've never dealt with. I stopped at 10sp. I'm 68 years old and my bike buying days are long over. I only once rode a bike with disc brakes and that was a very nice rental. I appreciated them on the hills in the SF Bay area. I also appreciated the 11sp super wide gearing the bike had for a road bike. The 34/34 combo got me up a lot of hills.
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Old 12-15-23, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster
All of my Campy cassettes/wheels/trainers always did without any adjustment. This is an argument I had with another forum member once before. There is a standard spacing specified by Shimano where the cassette should be and if it isn't it is non-compliant. That doesn't mean it won't work. But if you have a Shimano freehub on a wheel with a Shimano cassette they should line up. If you have any other brand they may not. If you have an 11sp hub you should have a 1mm spacer behind for 10sp and a 1.8mm spacer for 9sp. And you'll need to spread the frame 1mm, barely noticeable. If you have a 9sp freehub you can't run 10sp but can run a 9 of 10 cassette. I had a 7sp mtb wheel that could take 9sp but I had a 10sp system and I did that. It wasn't long before I built a new 10sp wheel though. I have no idea whether it would line up with any other 10sp wheel because 10sp Dynasys wasn't widespread. And it was on a 135 frame too of course.

Brake rotors are an issue I've never dealt with. I stopped at 10sp. I'm 68 years old and my bike buying days are long over. I only once rode a bike with disc brakes and that was a very nice rental. I appreciated them on the hills in the SF Bay area. I also appreciated the 11sp super wide gearing the bike had for a road bike. The 34/34 combo got me up a lot of hills.
This is full of misinformation.

First, the vast majority of folk with Shimano cassettes and derailleurs these days do not have Shimano hubs. Those hubs are built to Shimano spec, but that doesn't mean that they aren't .5mm off due to the tolerance stacking of cassette to freehub, freehub to hub body, hub body to bearings, bearings to axles ends. There is no argument to win here - I have done the measurements and they do not all work out the same. Neither do trainer freehubs. It's just the way it is.

Second, 8, 9 and 10 speed cassettes are all designed to fit the same freehub, so they are all the same width. So they all take a 1.8mm spacer to fit on an 11 speed freehub. The exception to this is many Shimano road 10 speed cassettes were undersized by 1mm to fit on a proprietary Dura Ace wheelset with a modified freehub. So when you mount those on other freehubs you have to use the 1mm spacer it comes with. Which means that a 9 speed cassette on an 11 freehub needs a 1.8mm spacer, and a Shimano 10 speed road cassette will need both the 1mm spacer AND the 1.8mm.

There are some other things going on with MTB cassettes, such as 11 fitting on 10 speed freehubs. But you get the picture.
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