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Lower Gearing for Ultegra 6603 Triple?

Old 02-10-24, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Well, yeah. I posted that photo to refute the idea that the granny is connected to the middle ring.
OH! I did not understand. My mistake. Apologies.
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Old 02-10-24, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB
Re: using a Wolf Tooth adapter

I had thought of using one to allow for larger cogs but I have never owned a bike with over 8 speeds. I checked the Wolf Tooth website and they show adapters for 10/11 speed. In this thread there's talk of using the adapters with a 9 speed.

Does anyone know if a Wolf Link will work with an 8 speed???
It will work. Years ago I had the same question about using it on my 8 speed mtb's. Once I realized the function, it just drops the RD down, the number of speeds have no bearing on it's function.

I have heard that it might not shift as well with small cogs. I'm running RoadLinks with 13-40 cassettes and older XT RD's and have not had any issues. Well, other than than it turns an SGS into an SSGS that sits really low to the ground on a 26er.

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Old 02-10-24, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_sr
I am not but I thought that it would be good place to start looking. Sometimes if you plug in a specific OEM part number Google will find AM equivalents.



Well, I just spent an hour or so surfing Sugino's website and it appears that either they have gotten out of or never had 10-speed rings with 130PCD. All of their stuff is 110PCD. The only 130PCD were 7-8 speed rings.

Praxis is next on my list but probably not tonight. Tomorrow is supposed to be a rain day so no riding.
8 speed rings work fine with 10 speed chains.

Instead of searching manufacturer's websites, I would just use a search engine to look for retailers that sell chainrings compatible with your desires. "46T Shimano 130 BCD chainring." And if you don't care what brand "46T 130 BCD chainring" or "46T 130 BCD 10 spd chainring".


BCD = Bolt Circle Diameter
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Old 02-10-24, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_sr
I am not but I thought that it would be good place to start looking. Sometimes if you plug in a specific OEM part number Google will find AM equivalents.



Well, I just spent an hour or so surfing Sugino's website and it appears that either they have gotten out of or never had 10-speed rings with 130PCD. All of their stuff is 110PCD. The only 130PCD were 7-8 speed rings.

Praxis is next on my list but probably not tonight. Tomorrow is supposed to be a rain day so no riding.
I think the reason for 110mm BCD taking over the market is the popularity of 52/36 and 50/34 doubles with 16 tooth difference, as these offer less duplicate gears, wider range, and neither 34 or 36 will work on 130mm BCD. And this is present in both 5x110, and 4x110. Thankfully for people like me who run part generations that are decades old, amazon has sellers that provide most of what I need. I hate supporting the evil empire, but the "killer app" (critical value) of amazon to me is bike parts.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I think the reason for 110mm BCD taking over the market is the popularity of 52/36 and 50/34 doubles with 16 tooth difference, as these offer less duplicate gears, wider range, and neither 34 or 36 will work on 130mm BCD. And this is present in both 5x110, and 4x110. Thankfully for people like me who run part generations that are decades old, amazon has sellers that provide most of what I need. I hate supporting the evil empire, but the "killer app" (critical value) of amazon to me is bike parts.
Not arguing, but there really was no reason gearing couldn't have gone to 54/38 on 130 BCD. But at the time, MTBs had recently gone to microdrive, there was a weight savings, and you could get lower gearing without going to a larger capacity rear derailleur. All it really took was the creation of freehubs that accept 11T cogs.

So it was the easy choice to increase the gearing range. But it wears chains, cogs and chainrings faster.
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Old 02-11-24, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Not arguing, but there really was no reason gearing couldn't have gone to 54/38 on 130 BCD. But at the time, MTBs had recently gone to microdrive, there was a weight savings, and you could get lower gearing without going to a larger capacity rear derailleur. All it really took was the creation of freehubs that accept 11T cogs.

So it was the easy choice to increase the gearing range. But it wears chains, cogs and chainrings faster.
Agreed. And while there may not be huge difference in wear with slight reduction in chainring size, I'll bet there is more in going from 13 or 12, to 11, and with a further reduction to 9. A consideration, as the the only way I could get by with a 16"/349 wheel (Brompton, 2024 Dahon Curl, et al) with external-only gearing (and not a monstrous chainring), is a 9 high in back.

11T high was not a challenge, even my old junky brand-x 7-speed freehub accepts that. 10T or 9T, on the other hand, requires a newer special freehub.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-11-24 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 02-11-24, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Agreed. And while there may not be huge difference in wear with slight reduction in chainring size, I'll bet there is more in going from 13 or 12, to 11, and with a further reduction to 9. A consideration, as the the only way I could get by with a 16"/349 wheel (Brompton, 2024 Dahon Curl, et al) with external-only gearing (and not a monstrous chainring), is a 9 high in back.

11T high was not a challenge, even my old junky brand-x 7-speed freehub accepts that. 10T or 9T, on the other hand, requires a newer special freehub.
Not a challenge, but a change. First generation hyperglide freehubs don't have the little step that allows the 11T cog to mount.
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Old 02-11-24, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Not a challenge, but a change. First generation hyperglide freehubs don't have the little step that allows the 11T cog to mount.
Oh really? Didn't know. I recall my 1989 7-speed cassette was just "Index Glide(?)", freehub only had threads on the outside for the high cog. I bought a new set of wheels around 2000, they had a different freehub design, I think outside and inside threads, to also take hyperglide, maybe not outside threads or maybe a skosh longer body, but I remember needing to swap the body with my old set of wheels, and even then it was a tight fit in the dropouts. My current bike is a Dahon with very cheap ("Formula") hub and 7-speed freehub body, 11-30 (cogs have awful ramps, nothing close to like hyperspaceglide)... Oh... yes... I think I know what you mean, if I recall, the splines don't go all the way to the end, and the 11T cog has recesses that don't go thru instead of full spline slots. Hmm... I agree it is a change, I wonder why necessary? The slots going all the way through, wasn't a problem interface between the Index Glide high cog and the next one. Maybe the slots would have been weak spots, coming too close to the actual sprocket area, the slots are only under the inner shoulder I think. So yeah. Thanks for that. I'd like to upgrade to 8 speed but that will require a new body, just a skosh longer, but I think can still fit in 130mm OLD.
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Old 02-11-24, 09:25 AM
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70sSanO Thank you
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Old 02-27-24, 03:59 PM
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Well, this turned out to be a major search effort. After mostly Google dead ends I finally figured out that the only 2 manufacturers that are still making 9/10 speed 130/74 BCD chain rings are Stronglight and T.A. Specialites, both located in France. All other manufacturers have either been bought out (TruVativ) or have stopped making these rings.

As far as finding a source I started with Wiggle. Unfortunately they didn't have the large ring in silver. I later learned that they no longer ship to the other side of the pond. I did find a U.K. touring shop, Spa Cycles that carried both TA and Stronglight and actually had the full set that I was looking for. I chose TA and have them on order. They should be her in about a week. Now, all I need is some dry weather to try them out.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Steve
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Old 02-27-24, 07:53 PM
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Glad you found what you were looking for. As the years trickle on rings for triples will eventually disappear.

John
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Old 03-01-24, 02:39 AM
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I just looked on amazon, there are tons of 5x130 BCD rings, from 38-60 teeth, 8-12 speed, $26. China, but CNC machined from 7075-T6, better than the stamped aluminum rings that came on my racer circa 1989.

5x74 BCD was a much bigger lift, see none.

My crank of late is on 5x110 BCD, I bought a spare, with bearings, it was not much more than just rings.
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Old 03-02-24, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_sr
Well, this turned out to be a major search effort. After mostly Google dead ends I finally figured out that the only 2 manufacturers that are still making 9/10 speed 130/74 BCD chain rings are Stronglight and T.A. Specialites, both located in France. All other manufacturers have either been bought out (TruVativ) or have stopped making these rings.

As far as finding a source I started with Wiggle. Unfortunately they didn't have the large ring in silver. I later learned that they no longer ship to the other side of the pond. I did find Steve
Another manufacturer who make 130mm BCD rings is Miche. Like Stronglight and TA they make a wide range of tooth count rings
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Old 03-10-24, 04:00 PM
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Am I totally screwed???

I ordered a set of TA rings (24, 38, 46) from the U.K a couple of weeks ago. They arrived and fit the crank perfectly. Unfortunately the FD-6603 won't shift this combination... at all! If I lower the FD such it is the correct spacing for the 46 ring the rear cage runs into the middle ring.

Apparently I need a bottom pull FD (triple or mountain) that is compatible with 3/10-speed STI shifters that will shift 38/46 rings.It also need a 34.9mm clamp diameter. Any suggestions?

I know where I can find a regular FD-6600 double FD. Specs say that it can shift less than a 15T difference but doubt that it has enough "throw" for a triple.
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Old 03-10-24, 04:33 PM
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I'm sure it is probably bad form. But I'd like to repost post number 9 in its entirety and include a link to the solution suggested.

Originally Posted by base2
I think your problem with a triple in the front will be the total capacity of the derailleur. As noted, you are already over the max cog size by 3 teeth.

A smaller crank set may be one solution. Another is to build a wheel around a Sturmey-Archer CS-RF3. Same ratios as a triple but all inside the rear hub. The caveat is your drive ratio is limited to 1:1 but the internal reduction of first gear lowers the realized gearing 25%. 1:0.75 is a pretty low gear.

The next question is then to cable routing. Any 3 speed mountain triple shifter ought to run it. Your road shifter won't on account of pull ratio. But it ought not be too hard to find a place to mount a shifter pod. Paul makes SRAM 31.8mm pod adaptors to mount to modern handle bars. You can also hollow out the clamp of a flat bar shifter & mount to the round part of road bar.

The CS-RF3 also comes with a cable stop meant to run full housing along the top tube to the seat stay then bare cable to the hub. As for mine, I used a pulley to facilitate routing and utilized the original front derailleur routing; Only to the pulley high on the seat tube instead of the derailleur. Then from the pulley down the seat stay.

The gearing is ridiculously wide. You sacrifice nothing and a new wheel is a lot cheaper and more efficient than a Schlumpf Drive.

But yeah. A mountain triple crank set is probably your cheapest option with a 22 or 24 tooth small ring would get you up the hills as long as you aren't in much of a hurry with that 42 tooth big ring.

Have you thought about a 12 speed bar end shifter in friction mode with a modern huge capacity derailleur? Derailleurs are up to something like 47 teeth capacity now. The derailleur won't care about the chain size or actual speeds. That's the cassettes job to worry about.
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Old 03-10-24, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_sr
Am I totally screwed???

I ordered a set of TA rings (24, 38, 46) from the U.K a couple of weeks ago. They arrived and fit the crank perfectly. Unfortunately the FD-6603 won't shift this combination... at all! If I lower the FD such it is the correct spacing for the 46 ring the rear cage runs into the middle ring.

Apparently I need a bottom pull FD (triple or mountain) that is compatible with 3/10-speed STI shifters that will shift 38/46 rings.It also need a 34.9mm clamp diameter. Any suggestions?

I know where I can find a regular FD-6600 double FD. Specs say that it can shift less than a 15T difference but doubt that it has enough "throw" for a triple.
I think you were warned more than once that swapping out chainrings creates a variety of issues, and this is another one of them.

You will not find an MTB derailleur that is designed to work with a road shifter. You could certainly try different "flat bar road" derailleurs to see if they will work with your non-standard modification, but no one is going to be able to tell you it will work, because you took a carefully designed system and made some huge changes to it.

Remind me why you didn't just put a different RD and cassette on the back?
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Old 03-10-24, 06:02 PM
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PM me offline. I can help you work thru this problem.
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Old 03-10-24, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I think you were warned more than once that swapping out chainrings creates a variety of issues, and this is another one of them.
The initial concern was to maintain the 22 tooth "capacity" of the original crankset. I don't recall anyone mentioning the existing FD not working with the new rings with the correct capacity.

Originally Posted by Kontact
Remind me why you didn't just put a different RD and cassette on the back?
Because ShannonM mentioned that it would be much "simpler and cheaper" to change the chainrings than changing the RD and cassette. They obviously didn't consider the FD compatibility.

Last edited by Steve_sr; 03-10-24 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 03-10-24, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
PM me offline. I can help you work thru this problem.
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Old 03-10-24, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_sr
The initial concern was to maintain the 22 tooth "capacity" of the original crankset. I don't recall anyone mentioning the existing FD not working with the new rings with the correct capacity.



Because ShannonM mentioned that it would be much "simpler and cheaper" to change the chainrings than changing the RD and cassette. They obviously didn't consider the FD compatibility.
An Alivio 9 speed MTB derailleur and a Shimano HG-50 11-34 10 speed cassette cost about $35 each, new.
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