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Tube/Tire Changing Issues

Old 02-20-24, 10:46 AM
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Tube/Tire Changing Issues

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm having problems changing my 700x38c tubes and tires on my 29'' rims. The tires are folding tires, but for some reason, both tires and tubes seem too big. The tires bead keeps coming out of the rims and the tubes want to bunch up in the tire. I'm just wondering if I'm missing a trick to getting them on. It doesn't seem to have been a problem for me before. Maybe it's more difficult changing a folding tire?
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Old 02-20-24, 11:33 AM
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After you get the first side if the tire on the rim and have the tube installed with it's valve stem in the hole of the rim, then inflate the tube just barely enough to almost round it out. Then it might keep the tire from being too floppy and hold it's first bead somewhat centered all around on the rim. But at some point while getting the second sides bead on the rim, you might need to let all the air out.

I've had similar issues even with 23 and 25 mm wide folding tires that are brand new. They just seem like they aren't going to fit properly. But they do, and after they get inflated to their normal operating pressure and are ridden for a time, they seem to take their proper form for the next time you have to remove them to change the tube.
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Old 02-20-24, 12:16 PM
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Thank you for the support, it makes sense. I'll try it next time.
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Old 02-20-24, 12:57 PM
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My son had exactly this problem last week. He’s pretty handy and it was driving him mad :-) A 20 minute stuttering facetime call ensued and yeah it was all about centering the tyre, which seemed almost too big for the rim, by inflating the tube just enough.
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Old 02-20-24, 01:00 PM
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Thanks, now I don't feel so bad. I guess misery loves company. I've changed tires and tubes before and never had that problem until now. Frustrating!!!
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Old 02-20-24, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gpolly1
I'm embarrassed to say this, but I'm having problems changing my 700x38c tubes and tires on my 29'' rims. The tires are folding tires, but for some reason, both tires and tubes seem too big. The tires bead keeps coming out of the rims and the tubes want to bunch up in the tire. I'm just wondering if I'm missing a trick to getting them on. It doesn't seem to have been a problem for me before. Maybe it's more difficult changing a folding tire?
Sometimes a folding tyre has a mind of its own - take it out of the wrapper and lie it flat for a day or two, preferably with a slightly inflated tube in it, when you come back it will be more willing to cooperate.
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Old 02-21-24, 06:58 AM
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Even some wire beads are "loose" and require slow intermittent air filling as the tyre is massaged about.

Do make sure you are using the right tube. The show really must fit here.
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Old 02-21-24, 09:49 AM
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Great Idea

Originally Posted by grumpus
Sometimes a folding tyre has a mind of its own - take it out of the wrapper and lie it flat for a day or two, preferably with a slightly inflated tube in it, when you come back it will be more willing to cooperate.
Yep, the shape of the folding tire had a mind of it's own. I let the tire sit out for a few hours, but a slightly inflated tube in it sounds like a great idea!
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Old 02-21-24, 09:58 AM
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There is absolutely no reason why a folded tyre can't be installed immediately from new stock.

I've never heard of letting it "air out" in advance.
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Old 02-21-24, 10:19 AM
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Try this approach, which is how it's done in factories.

Add some air to the tube until it's a sausage, but no more than needed to hold the shape. Stuff the tube evenly into the tire.

Starting at the valve, mount one side and use both hands to work to the far end in both directions. Flip the wheel, and mount second side, working both directions toward the valve. If necessary, go back and massage the tire toward the valve to get some slack and push it over.

Finally, push the valve in to the tire to make sure you haven't trapped tube under the bead, then pull back out.

Pump to 20psi or so, then spin to make sure it's seated evenly. Pump to riding pressure.

Note, the job should take less time than I spent typing this. Women in Taiwan do about 2 per minute.
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Old 02-21-24, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by soyabean
There is absolutely no reason why a folded tyre can't be installed immediately from new stock.
Of course it can be installed, especially by an experienced installer, it's just a question of making the job easier.

Leaving it on the front porch in the sun for an hour in the summer seems to relax the set in tightly folded tires.
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Old 02-21-24, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
Of course it can be installed, especially by an experienced installer, it's just a question of making the job easier.

Leaving it on the front porch in the sun for an hour in the summer seems to relax the set in tightly folded tires.
And it's possibly that set that's preventing the tire from seating evenly.

Also note that the rigid steel wire beads help tires seat evenly on their own. The flexible bead of folding tires don't do that, so added user care may needed.
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Old 02-21-24, 10:57 AM
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Wow.

Leaving black rubber in the hot summer sun.

That's a great way to deform a perfectly good brand new tyre that has nothing wrong with it.
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Old 02-21-24, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by soyabean
Wow.

Leaving black rubber in the hot summer sun.......
You do understand that this is a bike tires normal working environment?
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Old 02-21-24, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by soyabean
Wow.

Leaving black rubber in the hot summer sun.

That's a great way to deform a perfectly good brand new tyre that has nothing wrong with it.
Do you not ride on sunny days then? We don’t get super high temps here (yet) but I’ve done this to relax a folding tyre once or twice.
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Old 02-21-24, 11:17 AM
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Mounting tires/tubes efficiently and properly takes some practice and experience. Watch a couple of videos, like on parktools.com, to get the general idea. Then it is a matter doing it enough to get better at it. Different tires and wheels will be a bit more difficult. Tire levers and a bead jack can save you from some frustration.
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Old 02-21-24, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by soyabean
There is absolutely no reason why a folded tyre can't be installed immediately from new stock.

I've never heard of letting it "air out" in advance.
Same here. I've never done anything other than mounting the folding tire straight out of the package. It can be a bit onery and needs to be put in its place but it's not that tough to do. I might try the "let sit with an inflated tube" technique next time, unless I'm too impatient.
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Old 02-21-24, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
Same here. I've never done anything other than mounting the folding tire straight out of the package. It can be a bit onery and needs to be put in its place but it's not that tough to do. I might try the "let sit with an inflated tube" technique next time, unless I'm too impatient.
Yeah in my experience it’s nothing more than a “de-ornery-ing” trick. I haven’t done it with a tube either, just popped it out and laid it down flat for a few minutes while getting the wheel ready. Just found it stops it wanting to invert bits of the circumference.
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Old 02-22-24, 08:49 AM
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I typically buy tires before I need them and mount on old wheels. See, a reason to keep all that old stuff! Then, when you need them, they are stretched a little and in the right shape. And always easy to mount without a tube.
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Old 02-23-24, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by soyabean
There is absolutely no reason why a folded tyre can't be installed immediately from new stock.

I've never heard of letting it "air out" in advance.
The key phrase might be "from new stock", because the longer it's been folded the more likely it is to be annoying, I think. Not difficult, just annoying when it won't go on the rim because it's both too floppy and too kinked.
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Old 02-23-24, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Try this approach, which is how it's done in factories.

Add some air to the tube until it's a sausage, but no more than needed to hold the shape. Stuff the tube evenly into the tire.

Starting at the valve, mount one side and use both hands to work to the far end in both directions. Flip the wheel, and mount second side, working both directions toward the valve. If necessary, go back and massage the tire toward the valve to get some slack and push it over.

Finally, push the valve in to the tire to make sure you haven't trapped tube under the bead, then pull back out.

Pump to 20psi or so, then spin to make sure it's seated evenly. Pump to riding pressure.

Note, the job should take less time than I spent typing this. Women in Taiwan do about 2 per minute.
The perfect pressure is what you can do with your lungs and mouth. Saves reaching for the pump or air from your canister. Probably not a good idea for the immune compromised but I've been doing it forever.
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Old 02-23-24, 11:43 AM
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I have had the same problems with both Folding and Non-folding tiers. Often the Bead is off or thin or too close to the wire.

Take your tire and inspect the tire closely measuring the thickness and width of the bead. I think you will be surprised.

If the bead checks out as good then most likely it is slipping off the rim where the fold was at. For that problem I mount the tire then use zip ties to hold the tire inside the inner rim as I inflate the tire. Then after letting remain in place for a few hours I will remove the tie.

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Tire Not Seating - Another Thing To Check
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Old 02-29-24, 08:49 AM
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Here's how I do it with "ornery" folded tires:

Mount one bead first, all the way around the rim. This is only slightly difficult with a tire that's been folded a long time. Make the job look professional by centering the tire manufacturer logo over the valve hole, both front and rear tire logos facing the drive side of the bicycle. This not only looks good but can assist you with locating punctures in any tube you use down the road.

Inflate the tube just until it takes a shape. This is like maybe one, perhaps two downstrokes on a standard floor pump.

Insert the valve in the valve hole and down into the rim. Slowly insert the tube all around into the tire, or if there are too many kinks, then just around the rim. Once it's inserted, there should be no "kinks" in the tube.

Now, starting at the valve hole, fold the second bead over the tube and down into the rim. You may have to push the valve up into the tire to allow the second bead to come down and seat properly, and when that happens, pull the valve back down through the hole. Make sure the valve is straight. At the valve hole at this point, both beads are seated.

keep inserting the second bead around the rim, a little at a time, from each side away from the valve.

When you get 180 degrees from the valve hole, things start to get FUN!!

If you've done this enough, and your thumbs are strong enough, you can seat the final portion of the bead with little struggle. Go a millimeter a time if you have to, bit by bit.

If it helps, you can place the wheel on a work bench, with the axle hanging below and against the edge of the bench, lean your body against the rim to get leverage and to keep the wheel from moving, to get that final portion of the bead installed (my bench has a metal edge to assist with this, though at this point I don't need to use it).

Inflate the tire a few more pounds, and carefully look around the beads, on both sides of the rim. Make sure you didn't get the tube pinched in between the tire and the rim. If your tube was initially inflated sufficiently, this shouldn't be a problem. Once you're confident you've installed the tube and tire correctly, inflate to the pressure you prefer.

DISCLAIMER: I use older Mavic Open Pro semi-aero rims and high-quality folding tires that can seem difficult for most users to install, but I have never, ever needed to use a tire lever to install tires, no matter how tightly they fit. I have not tried to install modern tubeless tires on rims--but I still bet I could do it without tools.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:47 AM
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The problem that I often have is that a small portion of the tire seems to be seated too low, not up into the hook. Inflate/deflate and work it...sometimes the soapy water trick works, but I have read that Silca or someone sells a product for this, but no one carries that out of the road. Or pump to full pressure and it loudly pops into place. Or...jut ride it and it seems to seat eventually.
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