Cup and cone bottom bracket help
 

I’m having a problem with the tenacity cup and cone bb that I was wanting to install on a bike build. The Sugino xd600 cranks get stuck once they are tightened down. I’m using 110mm, and after giving up on them I used a 110mm cartridge bb and everything worked fine. What’s the difference? I tried a 113mm cup and cone that I had, and it worked, kinda,… but I have a 130mm spaced rear hub and thought the 110mm would be a better chain line. I was wanting to go old school with the bb. It’s like the spindle doesn’t stick out enough. It’s oriented correctly… just wondering if I’m fighting a losing battle.

it could be the crankset spindle interface. when i google (Sugino xd600) it says square taper JIS. you'd need to verify the spindles of your various BBs. sugino's website specifically calls out a "SG Mighty taper" and Ben's Cycle description calls for "113mm bottom bracket square taper for a 47.5mm chainline" hope that helps

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b2af3a9692.jpg

Why did you think you could get a better chainline by using the wrong spindle length?

Look over the freewheel cogs toward the chainrings - ideally the middle cog on the freewheel will like up with the middle chainring, in plane.

this is the "gun site method"

there are other ways to figure chainline but if you do this it will tell you if the spindle is too long or short, and everything is in proper alignment.

your comment about the arms being stuck on the spindle gives me cause to wonder if there's some other problem

/markp

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57aae1b821.jpg

the website I used (365 cycles) said 110mm for road use, 113mm for mountain. But, Bens Cycles website looks as though it is more informative.

Thanks, yeah that helps. I should’ve dug a little deeper (or in better direction) on Google.

I do not regard any statements about bottom bracket sizing seen on "a website" to be anything more than a starting point.

and I've never had a chainline problem, but I use Phil BBs on most of my bikes.

Mixing and matching components from different manufacturers will lead to unpredictable results.

if you can make it work, great ! but often you'll spend more money and time doing experiments on parts that won't work for you.

the nice thing about phil BBs is they have 3-5 mm of lateral adjustement. The bad news is they are expensive !

/markp

Just a shot in the dark, but was the spindle possibly "flipped"?
Often spindles have an offset with the DS being longer than the NDS.

EDIT: This is what Sheldon shows-
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#sugino

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8605d7d03f.jpg

My take? You worry too much about chainline and not enough about whether your crank is clearing the botton bracket and chain stay on the drive side. If the crank doesn't clear, your chainline is wrong

You are. Cartridge BB’s allow the crankarm to recess into the BB shell slightly where a cup-and-cone BB does not.

Are you using three chainrings or two? What positions are you going to put them on? If you are going to use a chainring on the inner (74mm BCD, “granny”) position and you use a 110mm BB spindle, I bet the front derailleur will not have enough inward travel to make the shift. (It’s been a few years, but I tried this. It didn’t work.)

I’m using the middle and the granny, and put a chain guard on the outer. I went back to using the 113mm cup and cone bb, and everything looks like it’s lining up well. But, I just found out the 9 speed cassette I bought needs a spacer for the 8-11 hub I have. I’ve built a half dozen or so fixed gears, but this is the first geared bike I’m doing. Just trying to enjoy the process! I guess I’ll be back with a future question or two.

I have a similar setup (granny, “middle”, & chainguard) with 9-speed on my cargo bike, albeit with ‘80’s Deore crankarms. I used the same BB as used on a triple crank. It works perfectly- to the point that the front derailleur did not require adjustment after the initial installation.

(It might have helped that I have 40+ years experience working on bikes.)

If you are using the granny and middle as a double, then you would want a longer spindle rather than a shorter one. It's good the way you have it, but your chainline is now based on the center between the two chainrings you've kept, not the chain guard.

A person can buy 6 - 8 cartridges for the price of 1 Phil allowing them to have them in various lengths "in stock" for experimental purposes if they do builds or swaps regularly.