A solution to stop flat tires?
 

After many attempts at patching an inner tube lately, I decided to put in a new tube for my front wheel. Now that I'm left with a tube that I cannot patch anymore, I was thinking of the idea of putting this old uninflated tube into the tire before putting the new tube in. By having both tubes in the tire, the old tube would provide an additional 2 layers of inner tube material for a sharp object to have to penetrate before causing a flat. Of course, I would have to cut the stem off the old uninflated tube in order for it to fit. But I don't know if both tubes would fit inside the tire and allow the tire to be reinstalled on the wheel. I didn't try it because I didn't think of it until after I put the new tube in and mounted everything and put it back on the bike.

Has anyone else tried this idea yet?

I have not tried that but I share your frustration with punctures. While I think it would provide some small degree of protection, I don't see it being much of a fix. I suppose it will stop a few punctures, but anything that gets into the casing of the tire and can puncture the barrier tube can also puncture the air holding tube. I'm not saying not to try it, by all means. Please do so and report back with your findings.

As for me, I've gone tubeless on a couple of my wheels and that works fantastic for puncture resistance. But it creates a whole new set of problems with rim tape and sealant issues. Not to mention the initial cost if you don't already have tubeless ready wheels and the tubeless capable tires. Living in the desert, sealant can dry up in a week or less if I'm not using the bike. Of course, the nice thing about tubeless is that it's just another option. You can run a tube on a tubeless ready rim and tire if you need. In fact, I learned the hard way to always carry a spare tube for those instances when you have tire damage beyond what the sealant can repair.

Another option is a premade tube insert to do exactly what you're trying to do. These inserts are made of a more durable material than regular butyl rubber. I tried this once but it was a colossal failure because I could never get the insert to stay in place when mounting the tire. That could be my procedure or the brand/type of insert I was using, I do not know which.

And yet another option are more puncture resistant tubes and tires. I have tried this also with good results. The downside is greater weight and rolling resistance due to the heavier construction. But for training rides, that's almost a good thing.

Between the various solutions, I like tubeless best because I can run a little lower pressure for more compliance and a more comfortable ride. But as mentioned, the downside is increased cost and maintenance, particularly in the hotter months. I think the puncture resistant tubes/tires is the best financial compromise as they don't require specific wheels and can easily be swapped out on race day if you're competitive.

It makes sense- anything that punctures the tire has an additional thickness of the second inner tube to work through before it releases the pressure. There are also “puncture resistant” inner tubes that are simply thicker rubber.

As above, there are “tire liners” that are tough polyurethane strips that fit between the inner tube and tire. I’ve had some success with the “Mr. Tuffy” brand liners. They can be a little tricky to mount- I inflated the bare inner tube enough to hold it in place before mounting one bead of the tire, then carefully deflating it while prying the other bead on the rim.

The Mr. Tuffies were good enough to keep riding even with large glass cuts in the tire- just a slight bump as the exposed Tuffy hit the ground.

I have not yet tried tubeless. Maybe next year.

As mentioned above, solutions will depend on your budget. For many years I commuted on $10 tires and got dozens of punctures per year. I just got good at fixing flats, sometimes two or three a day. (I live in goathead thorn country). I always allowed time for that and it worked for me for decades.

I used Tuffy liners with some success. Two more layers of rubber don't work with those thorns. Then I decided to start using $40+ tires (Continental Gatorskins or equal) and life got so much better--down to half a dozen per year. But once in a while I hit a road hazard and ruin a $40 tire--that hurts a little. If you don't have that kind of money to spend, use Tuffys.

Friends who use tubeless on road bikes (high pressure) don't have that much better luck than I do now, considering the cost and fiddle factor. MTBs are a different story--tubeless excels at lower pressures.

The logic seems sound, however, this would be very difficult to do unless the tube is larger than the one you are seeking to protect, and maybe you could spot cement or tape `he liner tube to the tire. There is Inner Tube Protecting, Bicycle Tire Liner (https://www.amazon.com/Thorn-Buster-...=A27N5HIM6ZB21) but the price is too much. We should be able to buy the material by the foot.

City kids around here like to "drift,: locking the brakes up which can can an abrasion flat, and ruin the tire, which they often have no money to replace. So i have used the center tread of an old tire (somewhat carefully cut out with a sharp box cutter), and used a piece of T-Rex tape to join the (cleaned) ends, after fitting. Patch the tube (which should rarely fail, though latex ones take more time) and it gives them some more riding.

However, this liner can chaff against the tube and cause an abrasion flat itself. Once, with a small electric bike (harder to deal with) that was getting flats too often, I placed an old military belt (w/out any buckle) inside as a liner. Never got a flat since, thank God.

Whatever happened to tire scratchers? They worked wonders for cutting down on puncture flats caused by thorns, glass, nails, etc.

I'm thinking that, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", could apply here. I don't think it's feasible to 100% eliminate flats but I recall when I went to tire scratchers back in my sew-ups days of the 70's and early 80's that flats were few and far between. Then mysteriously tire scratchers disappeared. Did the tube makers buy-up all of the companies making them? Hahaha....

Almost anything flexible will give more protection than another tube. Nagahyde, etc.

Do you figure out why you got the flat every time you have one? Unless you live where goat heads abound, you probably have some other issue causing your flats. I haven't flatted in about three years. I do nothing special. I only ride on pavement though, maybe some very brief stretches of gravel. You didn't say what your ride conditions are.

Not always. Only when it happens after I hit something hard, or if I find it still stuck in the tire. My latest adventure was actually a failing patch. Ironically, it was a store-bought self-adhesive patch. There were 2 other patches on the tube that I made myself, and they were fine. I think I've used that tube for 2 or 3 years without any problem before this latest loss.

I'm a pavement rider as well, and I ride a mountain bike (26" diameter wheels). I live in Wisconsin where Goat heads aren't a thing, which I'm very thankful for after hearing how much of a pain they are causing to bicyclists.
I don't get flats often, but when I do, it always makes me think of ways to not let it happen again. Or at least reduce the chances of it.
Oh, and I always patch tubes when possible. I get more satisfaction from fixing something when possible rather than replacing it. Frustration happens when I put everything back together and pump up the tire, only to find it flat at the end of the day. But when it works, hooray!

Thorn-resistant tubes would be a lot easier.

I am going to say that there is no way to stop flat tires unless you want to ride with solid rubber. Punctures happen. I have been fortunate to have not many flats despite having ridden years when I rode double didgets (either kilometres of miles) every years. Flat tires happen, if you know how to repair them, good on you. If you figure out why they happened, even better on you and the benefit will be that you may figure out how to avoid future flats

Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires are not flat-proof but they sure are close to it. I wholeheartedly agree with trying different stuff out and thinking out the box, but at the end of the day when you just want to minimize flats as close to zero as humanly possible then the Marathon Plus tires are really the way to go. Full disclosure: have not tried tubeless, not the lightest nor fastest tire out there, but, man, do they last.
signed
a satisfied customer

A flat after hitting something hard, like the concrete edge of a bridge approach where the asphalt is quite a bit lower or the edge of a pothole, might be a pinch flat. That means you either have to put more air pressure in your tires or you have to quit hitting those things. Pinch flats may or may not produce the double puncture that has gotten them the name of snake bite.

I don't pride myself on patching tubes. I don't flat often enough to stay in good practice. The adhesive is usually dried out by then and other things. So I just put a new tube in. Besides, I have too many uses for old tubes around the house and shop.

An update to my OP:
I got a flat, so I decided to try my original idea of putting an old inner tube into the tire before putting the good inner tube in there. I wasn't able to mount it back onto the rim because there wasn't enough room for both tubes in the tire. As I was trying to mount the tire, the tube closer to the opening of the tire kept popping out and wouldn't stay in. I tried hard to make it stay in, but it just wouldn't. So I had to give up on the idea.

People have tried many different home-brewed puncture mitigation techniques, including having two tubes fitted and both inflated (so if one flats you still have some air) but when you consider how much money and science the big tyre manufacturers put into product development, chances are they have a better solution.

As VegasJen said, just go tubeless.

But if you are riding a MTB on pavement and getting lots of flats, you might have problems other than puncture resistance. Are you sure these are mostly sharp-object punctures, rather than problems with your rims? And what kind of tires are you running now?

My advice? 1) after a flat, find out what caused it. Look at both the tube and tire. Notice what the tube hole looks like. Slice? Neat little puncture? (Hint - always locate the tire label at the valve. That way you know where to look on the tire if you have a hole in the tube say 7" away from the valve. Even if you've removed the tire.) Flats can be caused by issues on the inside the tire, the tape and the rim.. Also by small thorns, pieces of glass and short car and truck tire liner wires that can be completely hidden in your tire's tread, just re-emerging to puncture the next tube. So, 2) patch your tubes. Notice when the next tube is exactly the same distance from the valve. Now you know to within an inch where the issue is on the tire, tape or tube. Find it.

And look for snake bites. A second hole a 1/2 to 3/4 inch from the first and beside it. That is your rim pinching the tire upon hitting a pothole, curb edge or even just bottoming out hard on the pavement. Tubes don't take kindly to that pinch. (There isn't always a second hole but if there is, it's 99.9% likely to be a snake bike. Even a hint of pinch damage at the beside location - almost certainly that snake.) Snake bite prevention is the easy one. More air pressure. Enough always works. (Now more air pressure could cause other problems like blowouts, beads unseating ... Very heavy riders on bikes that limit tire width to very narrow may be challenged to find the sweet spot between enough air to not pinch flat and little enough to not destroy the tire. Too much rider weight and not enough tire width, maybe not even possible. (Buy a bike that takes bigger tires.)

When you know what's causing your flats, you can take a reasonable approach to preventing more. Throwing everything you can find at the wall to see what sticks can be time consuming, costly and often leads to heavy, not so much fun to ride wheels.

As I have mentioned in other posts about flats. I used Mr Tuffy liners for several years in Utah. You can't run low pressure with them or they will move around and I put powder on the tubes to avoid chafing. I had tried slime and It worked for thorns but metal and glass not so much. I believe tubeless to be slime without the tubes and I would only consider it for low pressure tire setups. Tires have gotten much better over the years and I started using Schwalbe brand tires. They make models with different levels of flat resistance. I am currently running the Schwalbe Pick-Up. These are a robust tire and the only Schwalbe tire with more flat resistance is the Marathon Plus. I no a guy with Marathon Plus tires and Mr Tuffy tire liners installed and another guy with the Tannus liners. both of these solutions will increase rolling resistance and change handling characteristics. I was riding the discontinued Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires. After changing to the Schwalbe Pick-Up I noticed an increase in rolling resistance. The OP not only needs to know what is causing their flats but needs to decide on what level of prevention they are willing to tolerate. I use the Rema patch kits and also carry a spare tube and a tire boot along with a tire remover that works with my setup.

@Rick what donyou consider low pressure? I run my tubeless 28s at 70-75psi

Maybe Tannus inserts (for tubes) would help ? https://theradavist.com/tannus-armour-inserts-review/
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4005a7961a.jpg
https://tannusamerica.com/products/tannus-armour


I've never tried it.
(I used Tannus insert only for tubeless setup)

Basically what you want for a better more flat free set up is good quality puncture protectant tires with a good standard inner tube again from a good quality manufacturer, pumped up to proper pressure. If you need further protection use the Tannus Armour inserts as suggested right above me which will require a slightly smaller inner tube. An old tube is fine for rubber bands or other odd purposes but I see no reason to put it back in the tire.

Do not use thorn resistant tubes, they are so stiff and rigid they make a poor inner tube and are easier to flat even sometimes before they go in the tube. Avoid other sharp edged liners like Mr. Tuffies as they move around quite easily and can abrade or cut the tube. Avoid goo-filled tubes as those are just gross and don't really work that well anyway.

You can also go tubeless which will require a tubeless compatible rim and tire and then you can usually just get a kit which has valves, sealant and rim tape. I would also recommend an insert there but you want a tubeless specific insert not the same thing as Tannus Armour (but Tannus does make one) and basically that allows you to run even lower pressure. The idea of tubeless is the sealant will take the place of the hole so you don't really lose air (maybe a PSI or two) and you just keep riding.

Take up bowling. No flats. Also no rain, wind, cars, dogs, headwinds, or chainring tats. Plus there's beer from start to finish.

Get a puncture-resistant tire, is your best bet?

I have two bikes that are my daily riders, and since I have put Continental Ride Tour/Tour Ride on both, I didn't have a flat in 1 and a half years on either bike.

I have read good reviews about a comparable Schwalbe Marathon Plus, which I will try it out next, on the narrow clearance bikes I am planning to buy, since Ride Tours don't come in 25mm size.

Used Conti's GatorFlats and Ultra Flats on my bikes, and not impressed with them. Consequently, I've emailed to Conti to change their names.

Stop flats completely, no, minimize flats to >5000 miles...yes. Every now and then carefully check tires for imbedded stuff. Use a pick to remove. When seeing glass on rides, do more often. No need for tubeless and the associated hassles, unless riding off-road in thorn country.

"...and then I dropped the ball on my foot."