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105 groupset Shift Cables
I read (and was told at one point) on this forum that shift cables for the 105 groupset should be changed frequently. We have two Trek Domane's in the household...a 2021 and 2022. One with a little over 3000 miles and one with a little over 5000 miles. It's rumored that the cables fray easily, but both bikes are still shifting as good as the day when they were new and my cables are not frayed.
Was this an issue with older model shifters that has since been remedied? |
Originally Posted by prj71
(Post 23346264)
I read (and was told at one point) on this forum that shift cables for the 105 groupset should be changed frequently. We have two Trek Domane's in the household...a 2021 and 2022. One with a little over 3000 miles and one with a little over 5000 miles. It's rumored that the cables fray easily, but both bikes are still shifting as good as the day when they were new and my cables are not frayed.
Was this an issue with older model shifters that has since been remedied? |
as dedhed says, it's more about shift count than mileage...
you should change your shift cables, at least every two years. if you don't you may discover how uncomfortable walking more than a short distance in your bike shoes really can be.... and how difficult getting a broken cable out of a brifter is. seriously... you spent several thousand dollars on your bikes... you should maintain them with the same level of enthusiasm. imagine buying a nice new Mercedes, then never changing the oil, and the engine finally pukes parts all over the 405 in rush hour. the toyota drivers changed their oil, and drive by, waving. change the cables. |
Originally Posted by dedhed
(Post 23346291)
I think how often you shift has more bearing than mileage
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Originally Posted by maddog34
(Post 23346318)
as dedhed says, it's more about shift count than mileage...
you should change your shift cables, at least every two years. if you don't you may discover how uncomfortable walking more than a short distance in your bike shoes really can be.... and how difficult getting a broken cable out of a brifter is. seriously... you spent several thousand dollars on your bikes... you should maintain them with the same level of enthusiasm. imagine buying a nice new Mercedes, then never changing the oil, and the engine finally pukes parts all over the 405 in rush hour. the toyota drivers changed their oil, and drive by, waving. change the cables. I wish people would quit using car analogies. It doesn't pertain to bikes. You change the oil in your car because it breaks down and doesn't do it's job lubricating the engine which leads to abnormal wear and tear. This is nothing like a cable that is or isn't frayed. |
I agree with dedhed that it's highly reliant on frequency of shifts and I also hate throwing out perfectly good parts. BUT, as soon as you detect any funky shifting no matter how few miles you have on them, stop and check for fraying especially where the cable wraps around the shifting mechanism. Wouldn't hurt to inspect them every once-in-awhile either. If it breaks near the head of the cable it can be a real PITA to remove from the shifter. I have 6600 shifters and my neighbor has 6700 Ultegra which are supposed to fray cables more frequently but I tend to shift about twice as often as he does so his cables last much longer. I cabled both bikes and took all the proper care to smooth any housing ends and routed properly so fraying is mostly due to number of shifts.
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Originally Posted by prj71
(Post 23346264)
I read (and was told at one point) on this forum that shift cables for the 105 groupset should be changed frequently. We have two Trek Domane's in the household...a 2021 and 2022. One with a little over 3000 miles and one with a little over 5000 miles. It's rumored that the cables fray easily, but both bikes are still shifting as good as the day when they were new and my cables are not frayed.
Was this an issue with older model shifters that has since been remedied? |
multiple Bicycle mechanics are telling you that changing those shift cables is a needed PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE ITEM...
you were warned. they break the struggles to remove the remnants of neglect are epic. i hope you enjoy struggling. the rear usually breaks first. as an experiment.. loosen the pinch screw on your rear der, then go for a ride. :thumb: and just think... you spend more for a flavored cup of sugar laden coffee. and cars are mechanical devices. it all relates. changing the oil BEFORE it breaks down is the idea. same goes for your shift cables. It's a perfect analogy. consensus says to change your shift cables used with shimano brifters.. 5k is a normal interval... when only time is known, i go with 1 year for heavily ridden bikes, and two years for the weekend warriors. |
Originally Posted by prj71
(Post 23346391)
I get what you are saying, But I'm not going to fix something if it isn't broke.
A new cable is cheap and easy to install...but if you want to roll the dice, here's a piece of advice: if you are out on a ride and nothing happens when you try to shift down the cassette (to a smaller cog), and then when you hit the paddle again and still nothing happens, STOP SHIFTING IMMEDIATELY and ride home on one cog. (You'll still be able to shift between chainrings, so you'll have two speeds.) Your rear shift cable is about to break off right inside the shifter, at the cable stop, and it can be very difficult to remove the broken-off cable stop and the shredded wire. In fact, even at this point, it might be difficult to remove the shredded cable bits from inside of the unit. Worst-case scenario is that you have to replace the STI unit. That's the voice of experience; you are free to ignore it, if you wish. But I'll note that I've had rear shift cables break in as little as 1500 miles. |
I had a cable fray and break at the shifter. Aside from the difficulty completing the ride, extracting the short, ball end of the frayed cable and the little bits of broken off cable required some disassembly of the shifter. This took 10X more effort than simply replacing a cable.
As a result of this, I went to a schedule of replacing mine every 6 months or about 2,500-3,000 miles. As mentioned, it's really about shift frequency rather than mileage. But this is the mileage that seemed correct for me. Obviously if you do a lot of flat miles, you may shift relatively little and go many thousands of miles and many years before you have a problem. If it's taking years to put on 3,000 to 5,000 miles, why not just replace them every 2 years or similar. The effort and expense are trivial over that time frame. And sometimes the closeup work and TLC will catch other issues early. |
On my vintage bikes the cable always fails on the rear half of the bike. On my 105 group sets it always fails in the brifter. Fortunately, there is a trick to getting those frayed pieces out without totally disassembling the brifter, even when the cable completely breaks inside there. I know, because I always wait until my shifting goes bad before replacement :mad:
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Originally Posted by SpedFast
(Post 23346703)
Fortunately, there is a trick to getting those frayed pieces out without totally disassembling the brifter, even when the cable completely breaks inside there.
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Originally Posted by maddog34
(Post 23346318)
imagine buying a nice new Mercedes, then never changing the oil, and the engine finally pukes parts all over the 405 in rush hour.
the toyota drivers changed their oil, and drive by, waving.. |
Originally Posted by dedhed
(Post 23346757)
If he's on the 405 he's really lost. Where he lives, the Toyota will stop and pick him up and they'll stop at the tavern and have a beer, but it'll more likely be a beat up old square body or F250. :)
we'll go with I-494 next time. vicarious tourism. |
Originally Posted by prj71
(Post 23346391)
I get what you are saying, But I'm not going to fix something if it isn't broke. I have 8 bikes in the household ranging from 2016 to 2023. I have only had to change the cable on of them so far and that was because the bike was involved in rain, mud, sand, grit incident that more or less wrecked the shifter and the cable.
I wish people would quit using car analogies. It doesn't pertain to bikes. You change the oil in your car because it breaks down and doesn't do it's job lubricating the engine which leads to abnormal wear and tear. This is nothing like a cable that is or isn't frayed. Dollar for dollar, bikes have gotten to be really terrible to maintain. You have the budget for multiple Domane's, so you could just risk the shifters being destroyed. You can certainly afford new ones. |
Originally Posted by Mtracer
(Post 23346639)
I had a cable fray and break at the shifter. Aside from the difficulty completing the ride, extracting the short, ball end of the frayed cable and the little bits of broken off cable required some disassembly of the shifter. This took 10X more effort than simply replacing a cable.
Having fished many a shard and strand out of Shimano STI shifters I would include swapping out the cables in my regular maintenance cycle. Top |
Originally Posted by Kontact
(Post 23346786)
Dollar for dollar, bikes have gotten to be really terrible to maintain.
Using the auto analogy I liken it to the CANBUS electronics of modern vehicle technology vs. the prior 'loom = doom' wiring of vehicles of the 20th century.
Originally Posted by prj71
(Post 23346264)
I read (and was told at one point) on this forum that shift cables for the 105 groupset should be changed frequently. We have two Trek Domane's in the household...a 2021 and 2022. One with a little over 3000 miles and one with a little over 5000 miles. It's rumored that the cables fray easily, but both bikes are still shifting as good as the day when they were new and my cables are not frayed.
Was this an issue with older model shifters that has since been remedied? After riding a '72 Motobecane for that same half-century I've just acquired a more 'technologically advanced' Shimano 105 groupset bike. So I'm researching all that's 'new & improved' that this bike brings to my experience, this shift cable wear & tear condition being one of these. That these cables are twisted strands of stiff, fine wire, they're prone to deterioration from stresses generated from flexing. Where the flexing is greatest is where they are forced into a change in direction and those tiny solid wires tend to move against one another causing fatigue. It's this fatigue that leads to ultimate failure where the change in direction is the greatest, even when the twisted cable's strands are well-supported by guides or sections of pulleys as in the shifter heads. Externally-cabled bikes typically don't have this kind of design so their cables aren't as prone to fatigue failure unless poorly installed or maintained. So from my prior experience and reading the posts here I agree with the concept of frequency of shifting being the primary cause of cable failure; the more a cable is used the more frequent the application of fatigue to those tiny, stiff wires that make up a cable when shifting happens. The only recourse for preventing eventual failure is to assume that these cables are consumables that require frequent inspection, with replacement to follow once signs of deterioration become evident. |
Originally Posted by spclark
(Post 23346865)
High-end bikes, yes. The tech they incorporate now brings benefits along with maintenance issues.
Using the auto analogy I liken it to the CANBUS electronics of modern vehicle technology vs. the prior 'loom = doom' wiring of vehicles of the 20th century. I doubt it. After riding a '72 Motobecane for that same half-century I've just acquired a more 'technologically advanced' Shimano 105 groupset bike. So I'm researching all that's 'new & improved' that this bike brings to my experience, this shift cable wear & tear condition being one of these. That these cables are twisted strands of stiff, fine wire, they're prone to deterioration from stresses generated from flexing. Where the flexing is greatest is where they are forced into a change in direction and those tiny solid wires tend to move against one another causing fatigue. It's this fatigue that leads to ultimate failure where the change in direction is the greatest, even when the twisted cable's strands are well-supported by guides or sections of pulleys as in the shifter heads. Externally-cabled bikes typically don't have this kind of design so their cables aren't as prone to fatigue failure unless poorly installed or maintained. So from my prior experience and reading the posts here I agree with the concept of frequency of shifting being the primary cause of cable failure; the more a cable is used the more frequent the application of fatigue to those tiny, stiff wires that make up a cable when shifting happens. The only recourse for preventing eventual failure is to assume that these cables are consumables that require frequent inspection, with replacement to follow once signs of deterioration become evident. |
Auto analogy - timing belts
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Originally Posted by Kontact
(Post 23346875)
Except this is a Shimano problem. SRAM and Campy brifters don't damage cabling so quickly and predictably. It has nothing to do with internal routed framesets.
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Originally Posted by dedhed
(Post 23346889)
Auto analogy - timing belts
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Changing cables should be a maintenance item...perhaps every year or longer depending on how much you ride and also how often you are changing gears...
You should also use a 'coated' cable...'slick whips', etc. as the coating allows the cable to 'slide' better than a basic cable...they are more costly but they do work much better and likely last longer. I ride around 10k miles annually and when using mech shifters I changed them every winter whether they needed it or not. Having had to dig the broken remains of cables out of shifters is a real pain in the arse...customers bikes, not mine fortunately. |
Originally Posted by Kai Winters
(Post 23346908)
You should also use a 'coated' cable...'slick whips', etc. as the coating allows the cable to 'slide' better than a basic cable...they are more costly but they do work much better and likely last longer.
Something like this? But without the included housing, just the smooth-surface, pre-lubed cables? What's the thinking about lubing uncoated cables where they ride around the grooved sheave quadrant inside the handle? Something that doesn't attract grime like a synthetic teflon grease or similar product that stays in place. |
Originally Posted by Kai Winters
(Post 23346908)
Changing cables should be a maintenance item...perhaps every year or longer depending on how much you ride and also how often you are changing gears...
You should also use a 'coated' cable...'slick whips', etc. as the coating allows the cable to 'slide' better than a basic cable...they are more costly but they do work much better and likely last longer. I ride around 10k miles annually and when using mech shifters I changed them every winter whether they needed it or not. Having had to dig the broken remains of cables out of shifters is a real pain in the arse...customers bikes, not mine fortunately. |
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