Ok, i realize the decision of whether to sink $$$ into an older bike (and just how much $$ to sink) is highly personal, but any opinions would be appreciated for my scenario.

I have a 1986 Trek 500 "Tri-Series" - a misnomer, as it has 'sports' geometry - not a total lame pig ride but not as aggressive as modern performance bikes either. It has a 531 main triangle, tange straight gauge stays and fork. 12 speed (6 speed rear) and the old style brakes with exposed cables. Very nice condition, just a few paint chips and had all the original parts except for toe clip straps; the tires and bar tape were shot. It fits me okay, I like a lot of standover clearance, which this has, with a decent top tube length for such a small bike (it is a 18" with 53cm TT. Most bikes that size I've seen are 50cm or so TT). I need to replace the 70mm stock stem with a 100 or 110 and the 38cm handle bar with something wider.

I also have a newer AL bike (2002) with Dura Ace 9 spd. I was hoping to keep the Trek as a rainy day/winter/loaner. I have a mountain bike I use as a commuter but figured the Trek would be good as a backup for that as well. I plan to do lots of 50-100 mile rides, maybe try some Cat 5 races. I reckoned the newer bike would last longer for racing if I thrashed the Trek on at leats 50-75% of training and touring rides.

I paid $200 for the Trek about 6 months ago, mostly purchased because:

a) I wanted a 'new' road bike and figured I'd try a more affordable old one first to make sure I liked the position, feel, etc - I am more used to flat bars and mtbs. I liked it a lot and bought the 2002 a few months later.

b) I missed my old 1981 Miyata 110 steel road bike, with relaxed geometry and all day comfort. Used that bike for commutes, half centuries, etc and loved the ride.

The Trek has not disappointed in replacing the Miyata's vintage silky ride. I did a thirty mile half metric century the other day and it rode smoothly and comfortably, even witha sore neck I'd suffered from a pinched nerve the day before. It responded just fine to standing climbs, accelerations, etc. It does however feel clunky next to the new bike in terms of the downtube shifting, brake lever set up, etc. Seated climbs are sluggish - the bike weighs 23-24 lbs. The brakes are rather low end shimano single pivot calipers - even if I slap on decent aero bar brake levers, I don't know how much the modulation would improve with the same calipers.

I started buying bits and pieces to upgrade sensibly - new tires and bar tape, clipless peds, my preferred model of saddle, wider handlebar etc. I figured i could live with brakes as is - They do stop safely enough, it's just harder on the hands than the smooth feel I am used to on newer bikes.

Then I noticed the chainwheels are bent, so I'd need another $40 or so for a new set, which made me wonder whether I was crossing the line in terms of upgrading wisdom. Now it turns out the rear axle is bent - not enough to make the bike unridable, but I know it's there (you feel it when coasting at speed) and it bugs me to ride a bike like that. I am the type who prefers to fix such things, even on a beater or hack bike.

Now I am looking at the entire list of upgrades done and left to do and tallying them, to decide if I should go on or just sell this bike and stick with my 2002 racer, and look towards a newer bike in the next few years; here's my choices as I see them:

1. sell it with all the original parts and hope to get my $200 back before I blow any more money - My wife likes that one!! we are already tripping over the 5 bikes in our 1-bedroom apt!

2. try to cheaply fix it - this will still hover near $500 in parts by the time I am done, and I still will have lackluster brakes and downtube shifters-not knocking these but I have never liked them. My miyata was cheap and had setm shifters, which I replaced with bar mtb shifters. I know this solution might make the most sense financially but I actually like it the least - like many other mad scientist frankensteiners, I prefer to fix things nicely.

3. go whole hog and upgrade the bike with a 9 spd wheel and cassette, new chain - that's about 150ish right there - or even add brifters and new brake calipers for another 250ish. This will make the bike quite nice but at a total investment of almost $1000!

4. strip it down to a fixed gear - it has 165mm cranks and horizontal rear dropouts. This would be cheap; I could do all the work myself, and the dearilleurs etc. could be sold to pay for a track rear wheel and chain. The Negatives with this route are at 41, my knees are so-so and I wouldn't use it on anything but short rides. I love fixies but I sold all mine a few years back and haven't missed them from a practical standpoint.

I know these decisions are all about what each person's gut tells them to do, but I am really torn. I know it's silly to spend a lot on a steel bike that's 20 years old with a 1" threaded front end.....on the other hand, would my shiny 3 yr old AL bike still be around in another 17 years? If not, why is it not silly to dump thousands into that one?


Any thoughts would be great.

Most component upgrades don't make economic sense. The real key is to be honest with yourself as to why you are doing this. Lots of times, the answer is that you just get enjoyment out of the upgrade process. If tht's the case, you have acquired the addiction and there is no cure.

I have a 1986 Trek 500 "Tri-Series" - a misnomer, as it has 'sports' geometry - not a total lame pig ride but not as aggressive as modern performance bikes either.


Slightly OT but how do you define "aggressive geometry" as it applies to a road bike?

1) That's the easy way out assuming you can come close to getting you $200 back....2) I don't see $500 to make it rideaable second bike if you buy right and do the work yourself...3)That's either madness or overperscribed therapy....4) You have alaready answered that on.

Bars: maybe $30
Stem: maybe $30
Aero Levers: maybe $30
Cables: $10
Bar End Levers: $60
Axle: $10
Chainrings: $40
----------------------
Total: Maybe $250 by the time you count all the little things I'm forgetting. The only real "upgrade" there is possibly the bar-end shifters. The other stuff just makes your original investment more worthwhile so it will fit your body.

sigh....you got my number :rolleyes:

most of the threads I found by searching had people regretting selling a nice old steel bike that fit them well.....I regret selling my old miyata for just that reason - only reason I ditched it was for safety's sake - there were bent stays, wrinkles in the paint near crucial joint areas, etc etc. I am over 200 pounds so I figured father time was running out. Everything was going on it (headset, etc) at once so i reckoned sell it for parts before I buy the farm. I know that was a sound decision but I do still miss that bike.

Having said that, a few posters say they regretted dumping way too much money into an old bike...I think the deciding factor is usually whether the money saved would have gone a long way towards a new bike or not. In my case I'd definitely want a newer bike in addition to the old timer, so the question for me simpy is should i or shouldn't i?

But I DO love the upgrade process (when it works out well - I hate it when it's expensive/dificult/impossible, etc...) The only thing that might beat the feeling of getting a nice shiny new bike is riding an old friend you pieced together just so with your own two hands.

Comparing the 86 Trek and my 02 Orbea, I see

Trek has fork with much more rake/trail, longer front half, less toe/wheel overlap
Trek has longer wheelbase, rear wheel further from seat tube and longer chainstays with seat farther ahead of rear axle.

seat tube angles are about the same. top tube length (53cm c-c) and seating position is pretty much identical with the longer stem on the Trek.

Slimmer tubing diameters overall with a smoother ride overall on the Trek. The Orbea is columbus starship and alpha q carbon fork. A nice ride and a bit more snap than the Trek though I honestly feel the Trek has a better sprint response character! I prefer the Orbea for long seated climbs due to the weight (17 pounds) and it certainly works nicely due to the newer hubs and gruppo. Subtle and subjective points but that's the way it feels to me comparing the two.

as usual, sir your answers are succint and spot on - thanks for reading through all my tripe once more.

Yes, the #3 is crazy. upgrader madness at its worst. If my newer bike could use an upgrade I could see sinking the money there and migrating its 2002 brifters onto the trek, but even that is kinda silly. And the Orbea doesn't need an upgrade, it's fine.

#4 - check. Just exploring all the options. but-

re: #1, I think I could get $200 in NYC (local CL) even if I am up front about the bent axle, because most folks would be looking to grab it for the frame to make a fixed gear......these are hotcakes in the trendy hipster world at the moment......for $200-300 my trek is half the price of an entry level Bianchi or fuji track model, set up for street with brake and all. The trek already has brakes, etc. I also considered disassembling the bike and parting it out on ebay, dumping the injured chainrings as losses and selling the rear wheel with discalimer about the axle. Figured that would improve my chances of recouping my $200

#2 - the $500 assumes $100.00 or so spent on a pair of decent dual pivot brake calipers. I could definitely stay with the current stock calipers and just a pair of new aero levers, but I reallocated that same $100 cost for a new cheapo 9 spd wheel, cassette and thinner chain from Nashbar. I'd keep the non-indexed downtube shifters and original shimano 600 derailleurs - I am assuming they'd work with the 9spd wheel but you know what happens when one assumes...... :o

The huge difference in my list and Diego Frog's is the DIY you mentioned - he has $10 for new axle, which is obviously better than my $100 for whole new wheel (the rear wheel's rim and freewheel are fine); my reservations are because I have essentially ruined every rear hub of any type I have ever attempted to overhaul....can't explain my ineptness, I O/H BBs, headsets and front hubs okay, I just **** out when doing rear hubs and now I have a phobia about messing with them.

The rear hub with bent axle is a Malliard 600 sealed with QR. Is an axle replacement fairly easy DIY on these? I am willing to try it - what do I have to lose?

Based on the replies and what's in me heart & head, I think keeping the total investment at $500ish ($200 purchase and $300 in parts/labor) would be okay for a downtube shifted 12 speed that works. I certainly don't NEED it to be upgraded to 9spd. As Diego Frog pointed out, swapping stuff to improve fit/position is fine on any bike, in my opinion. I just started hedging about this bike due to the chainrings and axle needing replacement and the bike's age. I honestly could live with it as is if I was just riding a few miles here & there but I really like the ride of this bike and wanted it roadworthy enough for longer easy tours, centuries, etc. I've dumped my chain a few times due to the bent chainwheels and feeling your back wheel pulsate violently beneath you is NOT a good feeling doing 20-30 mph downhill with another 30 miles to go :eek: .

Cut and run.

Look for a newer used bike set up the way you want.

In another thread (whereupon another BF'er helped me spot the axle problem) Hillrider suggested another option - ditching the 6 spd freewheel rear wjeel and getting a 7spd freehub/cassette wheel.....I can deal with that too, but I don't want to buy a used wheel with more headaches. Is this something you all would explore? Are new wheels with 7 spd available? At that point wouldn't i just be better off with 8 spd (compatible with 9 spd too?)

I should add I tried dropping my Orbea's 9 spd wheel into the trek and it slid right in; there is a LOT of space in the Trek's dropouts with the 126mm 6-spd wheel, so maybe someone already tried coldsetting it for a modern wheel? In anycase the frame seems to track straight and can handle a 130mm rear hub just fine.

Just checked Nashbar's site - a sora/mavic wheel, cheapo nashbar 9spd casette and chain would run me about $110, plus the tools - another $20ish - and the anxiety of DIY.......

sigh :(

A LBS can likely match the bent axel.....There is nothing magical about dual pivots.I actually prefer simgle pivot 105 or 600s with decent pads and clean rims...If you insist on DPs PM me.I have a box full of very clean ones that need a good home at reasonable price. Shifters and RD should work with 9 speed cassette in friction mode. You can also use a shimano 8/9 speed wheel with a 7 speed HG cassette and 4.5mm spacer.

Rather than messing with a 7 speed hub/ wheel unless you can find a new one, a 7 speed cassette works on a 8/9 hub if you stick a 4.5mm spacer on the hub body before the cassette.

Options 1 and 4 (selling it or making a fixie out of it) are the only ones that make sense. This is not a bike that you are personally attached to. for about 150 $ more that what it would cost you to upgade parts you could get an entry level trek, etc that would be lighter , have the new parts and be new all over, when you start piece meal upgrading a bike that is 20 yrs old you start to find compatability issues. i have a somewhat older gitane I am very attached to and thought about similar upgrades, but about everything has changed since it was built- bottom brackets, headsets, chains, cassettes etc. @0 year old bikes are good beaters but newer ones generally ride better.

Thanks guys,

I just ran up to a local shop with a decent repair dept and asked them what they thought of the hub, did they have an axle, etc.

Two people there - guy at parts counter and mechanic in the back each told me the hub looked okay, axle definitely NOT bent (???) and that the off-kilter thing was 'normal'...hmmmm.....I know a freewheel is supposed to float a bit but it seemed weird to me That the axle was normal like that...hey, what do I know?

I drove to another shop down the street, a store where the sales guys will aggressively try to get you part with your cash any way they can and they too told me it looked fine and if anything the bearings had a bit too much play, hence the wobble.

So maybe I can salvage the old boy with less cash than I thought. I am debating though, lots of food for thought here.

Thanks for the offer on the brakes, sydney - assuming I keep/tweak the trek I will probably go with new levers first (Looking at the Tektro 200As, $18 vs $30 for the Cane Creek version) and if they improve the feel of the stock calipers I'll proably stand on those - if not I will let you know and I am sure you'll have something for me that will improve the bike. It's more the hand sensation/modulation than the stopping power I want to improve and those tektros appear to have a nice wide hood to boot (plus as I've blabbed about on other threads I'd be going from exposed cable to aero hoods and a new stem and grooved drop bar, so that three pc upgrade at about 75 bucks all told seems okay to me for the benefits derived).

As always I kick myself when I think of all the nice old Modolo and Ultegra calipers I dumped some years ago on ebay thinking "when will I ever need THESE again?" :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

anyhoo assuming the wheel is indeed okay and I have some options on used calipers maybe it won't be so fiscally painful to keep the extra bike after all.......

so after a lot of thinking, I think I'll blow $40 bucks on new brake levers and cables (Sydney, I'll pm you if I decide to replace the calipers), another $25ish on a proper length quill stem and ride the trek as is for a while.

If the rear wheel gets worse or I get tired of the wobble, I decided to buy a wheel from Nashbar - nothing too fancy, mavic open pro 32h rim, 105 hub, add a sram 9spd cassette and chain, and replace the chainrings too (generic Nashbar rings). This will be another $200ish through nashbar.....nuts, but I reckon I can use those parts on my other bike too as a training wheel and backups. It's a 2002 DA and the bike looks well used so having some sram backup parts doesn't seem so crazy - I did draw the line at putting sti, etc on the Trek. I can live with the downtube shifters for centuries and easy rides.

Naturally I'll save the original brake levers, stem, bar, 6 speed wheel, chain and chainrings in case I flip flop and decide to sell it.

If you're going to ride the wheel, adjust (and overhaul) the hub. That wheel jumping around will make my brain rattle, hundreds of miles away. I can't even imagine riding on it like that...

:D :D :D :D

well, I double checked it last night - I don't own cone wrenches and I am a bit wary of doing surgery on rear hubs - call me a wuss but I have wrecked every rear hub I've poked around in. I did tighten down the furthest outward bolt on the freewheel side.

I think most of this wobbling was precipitated by my gorilla removal of the plastic spoke protector. I used pliers to yank it off after snipping a radial slit and some elbow grease and twisting was involved. I certainly didn't think I banged the freewheel around but who knows? Maybe I bent the axle slightly?

I hadn't ridden this bike much for a while (My wife was using it till she just bought her new C'dale) before getting on recently and noticing the wobble - I removed the spoke protector the night before taking it to a metric century, as my wife was riding her new bike.

I should mention I removed the dork disk while the wheel was mounted......maybe I should have removed it from the frame first.


In retrospect i googled removal of spoke protector and there certainly are no how-to web pages I could find....seems simple enough - cut and yank?

Removal for me involved taking the cassette off first. There were four "tabs" locking the dork-disc at the junction of spokes. I had to distort the disc slightly to disengage the tabs.

I get really leery of putting undue pressure on spokes. They're designed to work as a team and "yanking" a dork disc - it seems to me - is risking a damaged wheel.

The plastic ones are ug-lay. Find an old 27inch wheel by the curb on garbage day and gank a chrome one.
I had to widen the center hole of the chrome one with a Dremel and to attach it I used zip-ties but you can't tell once it's installed and it's a lot better looking than the plastic ones, IMNSHO.

http://www.ncf.ca/~af895/bling_disc_2.jpg

;)

I dig the appeal of the chrome disk vs plas-tique, but neither is for moi