Bolt-On Skewers Adjusting
 

hey i couldn't find an answer for this anywhere. when i overhaul a hub i really hate having to adjust it for play and compensating for the quick release. i prefer solid axle hubs, they are easier to overhaul.

i was wondering if i were to get bolt on skewers, like the ones found on nashbar, http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename= , would i still need to adjust it like quick release or would it be like a solid axle hub?
thanx

If you're going to leave the skewer in place then it would be similar to a solid axle. If not, then just like a QR.

Tim

I believe that the reason why we need to leave play to compensate for a quick release skewer, is because a skewered axle is hollow and therefore, it flexes a tiny bit when the skewer is tightened. That tiny bit of flex is what tightens the contact of cones on bearings, and that's what we are allowing for, when we leave a little play in the untightened axle. This same thing would be true of any hollow axle, whether the skewer was tightened via quick release lever or by means of a nut. The axle is hollow either way, so the same flex would happen with tightening. These skewers are probably advantageous as a theft deterrent, but they won't make your hollow axle behave like a solid axle.

My sense is that the bolt-ons needn't go as tight as a typical QR. They are convenient to have for commuting when you don't want to worry about locking up your wheel.
But really, how much difference does a tight QR make in bearing adjustment? I've never heard of that issue before. Seems to me that if your cons are adjusted well and the nuts that border the cones are tightened against the cones, you've taken any play out of the threads and tightening the QR won't make any difference. Though I'd be happy to be shown wrong on this (and will have to start thinking more about how I adjust hubs when I overhaul them).

lawkd, I think that you're wrong about a hollow axle flexing when a QR is tightened. A hollow axle may flex a bit more (but hardly, since the middle portion of a rod plays a very small role in its flexibility), but it's not going to stretch or compress along its length.

No, it really does make an important difference. If you have no play before tightening a hollow axle, then your hubs are overtightened when you clamp the quick release or tighten down the skewer nuts by whatever means. Here is the passage from the Park Tools site, and the link to get you there:

[begin quote]
Hub Adjustment

Quick release hubs have hollow axles that flex slightly when the quick release is closed. Hub bearing adjustments must account for this extra pressure. When a quick release hub is not clamped tight in the frame, there should be a slight amount of play in the axle. This play disappears when the hub and wheel are clamped in the frame.

To test if a hub in your bike has an adequate adjustment, grab the wheel while it is still in the frame and pull it side to side laterally. Turn wheel and test again, feeling for a knocking sensation. If no play is felt, remove the wheel. Grab the axle (not the skewer) and rock it up and down to check for play. If the axle has play when the wheel is outside the bike, but no play inside the bike, the adjustment is adequate. If there is no play in the axle when the wheel is outside the bike, the adjustment is too tight, even if the axle seems to turn smoothly when out of the bike. [end quote]

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=105

wow! you beat me to it, i assumed everyone knew that, it has a lot to do with my question.

here's what they say about solid axle:
HUB ADJUSTMENT- SOLID AXLE TYPE
Non-quick release hub systems use axle nuts and washers on the outside of the dropouts to hold the wheel in place. Adjustment of solid axle hub bearings is similar to the hollow axle quick release type, but there is no need to allow for axle flex. Mount the wheel in the frame similar to quick release hubs as described above. Tighten the axle nut inside the dropout that is holding the wheel. The axle is now held tight. Check for bearing play. If no play is present, create play by loosening bearing adjustment, then adjust in small increments until play in gone. The goal is to find the loosest adjustment that has no play. Remove the wheel from the bike. The adjustment for solid axle hubs does not change when mounted in the bike.

Right, so I think that the operative variable is whether the axle itself is solid or hollow, and using skewers of any kind will mean that your axle is hollow. Which would necessitate leaving a little play in the unclamped axle.

Thanks for enlightening me. I trust Park on the practical stuff, but their explanation as to *why* it happens strikes me as bunk.
I don't think that this has anything to do with the axle being hollow and thus flexing, but rather to do with a bolt-on axle being under tension (as the bolts are tightened) and the QR axle being under compression (from the QR tightening the dropouts against the locknuts).

This is fascinating, I hadn't thought of it that way. The hollow, skewered axle is going to have compression along its full length, whereas the solid, bolt-on axle is really only compressed on the ends, in that small distance occupied by the fork dropout.

Exactly. That's why I jumped on the "hollow axles flex" to begin with. Axles aren't subject to flex, at least not from the difference between bolts and QR's - those subject the axles to tension and compression, respectively. (Of course, axles do flex under vertical forces - freewheel rear wheels often got bent on the drive side from such flex, and front MTB hubs had to be redesigned to deal with the extra flex from suspension forks where the legs didn't telescope perfectly together.)

That said, I'd never thought about what happened to the axles (or perhaps just the bolts on the axles moving to one side or another on their threads) as being different between QR and bolt-on wheels.

And in clear answer to the original poster's question, non-QR skewers will still work exactly the same as a QR skewer in this respect - longitudinal compression force on the axle will make the bearings tighten.

Stein sells an axle vise that holds the hub with the quick release skewer already tightened in place so you adjust the bearings with no compensation for later changes. Bike Tools Etc sells it for under $12 and here is the link:

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...item_id=SN-HAV

alright, but with quick release skewers you have to close the lever at the same point every time youv'e opened them so that they are compressed almost the same amount everytime. that's why they invented these: Quick Nuts . with bolt on skewers you can't do that. so when you overhaul a hub with bolt on skewers, do you still leave play? how would you get rid of play if you all you do is tighten the bolts? if you were to keep tightening the bolts would it start to grind?

Well, I suspect that a QR will clamp a bit tighter than the bolt-on skewers. Quick Nuts will allow you to clamp it a bit less tight, but the basic force will still be compression along the axle - quick nuts can't change the mechanics of how a wheel is attached to the frame when it uses a skewer through a hollow axle.
The vise thing would totally solve your issue, and it's pretty cheap. I'd go for taht. I might buy one myself.