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Campy Cassette/Derailleur/Hub Compatibility Question

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Campy Cassette/Derailleur/Hub Compatibility Question

Old 01-10-06, 06:46 PM
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askrom
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Campy Cassette/Derailleur/Hub Compatibility Question

I am fairly certain that I am eventually going to upgrade to a Campagnolo derailleur/shifter setup.

I am currently in the process of buying new wheels, and thus a new cassette to go with em.

My ultimate question is: Do I need to buy wheels that work with Campy cassettes? Or can I buy Shimano-compatible wheels and then put some third-party Campy-Compatible cassette on the wheel?

Basically it would be nice if I could buy a Shimano model since there are so many more options in that category.
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Old 01-10-06, 08:01 PM
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According to Sheldon, https://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#spacing -- "9-speed hubs/cassettes seem to work pretty well with the opposite 9-speed derailer/shifter brand", where "Shimano" is the opposite of "Campy", or so I assume.

So, though I don't know if anyone makes Campy-spaced cassettes for Shimano freehubs, it sounds like you can *probably* get Shimano wheels/cassettes and use em with a Campy shifter+derailleur setup.
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Old 01-10-06, 09:29 PM
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Thanks for the response...

So you're interpreting Sheldon's page to say that 9-speed cassettes and 9-speed shifting systems are totally interchangeable between Campy and Shimano? It seems to me like that's what he's saying, too, but the "reasons that are unclear" part is a little troubling. I think that I need a little more certainty than that.

Has anyone actually used a Shimano 9-speed cassette (on a Shimano-splined hub) with an otherwise all-Campagnolo shifting system?

(I am probably going to go 9-speed, as it's way cheaper than 10 and still three more than what I have now!)
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Old 01-10-06, 10:30 PM
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If you're going to Campy, you're probably going 10 speed. There are various conversion cassettes from the likes of American Classic that work with Shimano wheels and Campy drivetrains.
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Old 01-11-06, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by askrom
Has anyone actually used a Shimano 9-speed cassette (on a Shimano-splined hub) with an otherwise all-Campagnolo shifting system?
Yes - Airnimal Rhino MTB :
10 speed Campag Centaur shifters and Centaur dérailleur working a 9 speed Shimano cassette.
I think the index error is +/-1mm over the gear range.

Another variation on my Marin ( ex-MTB) touring bike:
10 speed Campag Centaur shifters and XT rear dérailleur working a 9 speed Shimano cassette ( with hubbub cable routing )
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Old 01-11-06, 07:13 AM
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Yes, rode my 10 speed Campy shifting a Shimano 9 cassette. It does work but not well, as there is a difference in indexing as was said and the chain will side rub some parts of the cluster. There are many cassettes that convert Shimano hubs to Campy drivetrain. I am now using a Mavic 10 speed conversion cassette with my Campy 10 setup on an older Mavic SSC shimano rear wheel. Really happy with this setup. Quiet and smooth shifting and saved some coin.
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Old 01-11-06, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by askrom
I am fairly certain that I am eventually going to upgrade to a Campagnolo derailleur/shifter setup.

I am currently in the process of buying new wheels, and thus a new cassette to go with em.

My ultimate question is: Do I need to buy wheels that work with Campy cassettes? Or can I buy Shimano-compatible wheels and then put some third-party Campy-Compatible cassette on the wheel?

Basically it would be nice if I could buy a Shimano model since there are so many more options in that category.
There are so many good Campy compatible hubs that it shouldn't be an issue. Campy makes some of the best wheelsets available, far better than Mavic IMO. Most Campy factory wheels have the option of a Shimano cassette hub body if desired.

Tim
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Old 01-11-06, 10:11 AM
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Wheels Mfg makes their 10 speed accelerator cassette in 11-23, 11-25 and 11-27.

American Classic makes 11-23, 12-23 and 12-25 combos.

All of these will work fine on most Shimano compatible 8/9/10 speed wheels.
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Old 01-12-06, 11:56 AM
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I researched this same question pretty thoroughly for my girlfriend, who got a killer deal on new Shimano compatible wheels but runs a Campy 9 drivetrain. She was figuring she'd convert the hub (a DT 240, which is convertable) but wanted to investigate other options when we realized that would take $100 in parts to do that. I would up installing a J-Tek Shiftmate for her (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/shiftmate.html). As others have mentioned on this thread, you *can* run a Shimano cassette on Campy derailers, but we found that it's not really so great. You're basically taking advantage of the "slop" tolerance on the RD (i.e. the space where you're not exactly hitting the shift, but it will get sucked into the gear you want anyhow), which results in a lot of rattle and occasional missed shifts. The Shiftmate is basically a pulley that you loop the derailer cable through. It creates a very small differential that gets the amount of cable pull exactly right for a Shimano cassette. I was a little wary at first, but lo and behold, it actually shifts *better* with the Shiftmate on Shimano then it did with a Campy cassette. Probably due to the fact that the Shiftmate does away with the need for a big loop of cable housing to make that 180 turn into the derailer, like one of those Avid things you see on mountain bikes. This also looks super-cool. I'm really happy with it, and at $30 it was a heck of a lot cheaper then a conversion cassette. Definitely check it out.
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Old 01-12-06, 12:58 PM
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check out IRD for campy-shimano cassettes.
One annoying aspect of Campy 10-speed, the 11t lockring does not fit on 12t or higher, the 12t lockring fits 12t or higher, but not 11t. grr. $23 for a lockring.
 
Old 01-12-06, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DocRay
check out IRD for campy-shimano cassettes.
One annoying aspect of Campy 10-speed, the 11t lockring does not fit on 12t or higher, the 12t lockring fits 12t or higher, but not 11t. grr. $23 for a lockring.
Even though I don't use an 11t I agree that it's really foolish.

Tim
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Old 01-12-06, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by askrom
Thanks for the response...

So you're interpreting Sheldon's page to say that 9-speed cassettes and 9-speed shifting systems are totally interchangeable between Campy and Shimano? It seems to me like that's what he's saying, too, but the "reasons that are unclear" part is a little troubling. I think that I need a little more certainty than that.

Has anyone actually used a Shimano 9-speed cassette (on a Shimano-splined hub) with an otherwise all-Campagnolo shifting system?

(I am probably going to go 9-speed, as it's way cheaper than 10 and still three more than what I have now!)
Yes, on many occasions.

9 Speed:

Campagnolo 9s cassettes are slightly wider than Shimano 9s cassettes (search thorugh Sheldon's site for accurate measurements).

Whilst I found that using Shimano s 9cassettes/hubs with Campag 9s shifters and deraillers works well (and shifting is a bit quieter - but no more effective really), it can be improved by replacing two of the shimano 9s spacers with slightly wider 8s shimano spacers.

As 8s spacers are slightly wider, the little bit of extra width provided by the 2 wider spacers helps to keep the cogs and deraillers in line at the extremes of the cassette (ie smallest and largest gear). Essentially it enables you to get the Shimano cassette width closer to that of a Campag cassette.

I found the best place to put them is between 3rd and 4th, and then between 6th and 7th.

With this done, I cannot perceive any difference in shifting quality - ie "excellent".

There are companies that make spacers kits that do essentially the same thing as the above - at ridiculous cost! Don't bother!

10 speed:

Campagnolo 10s cassettes are again slightly wider than Shimano 10s cassettes (search through Sheldon's site for accurate measurements).

ASIDE: Shimano also uses a thinner chains as well (as an aside, Shimano 9s chains are the same width as Campag 10s chains - these can be used interchangeably - though Campag are IMHO better quality and last longer).

Whilst I found that using Shimanos 10s cassettes/hubs with Campag 10s shifters and deraillers works ok (not quite as good as Shimano 9s vs Campag 9s above), it can be improved by replacing one of the shimano 10s spacers with slightly wider 9s shimano spacer.

The little bit of extra width provided by the wider spacer helps to keep the cogs and deraillers in line at the extremes of the cassette (ie smallest and largest gear). Essentially it enables you to get the Shimano cassette width closer to that of a Campag cassette.

I found the best place to put is is right in the middle of the cassette - between 5th and 6th.

With this done, shifting improves to "good", but IMHO is not as good the 9s hybrid above.
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Old 01-12-06, 09:24 PM
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All good suggestions, but... Ask the dealer you buy the wheels from if you can buy wheels that can interchange the hub body between campy and shimano hub bodies. There is a trend allowing the change over from a shimano cassette hub body to campy one or visa versa. Mavic Cosmos and Kryserium are 2 that come to mind. Excel Sports in Boulder, CO just did that for a friend for about $70. The remanufactured cassettes work but not as well...in my opinion. As for other manufacturers ask before you buy.
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