genericbikedude

I'm thinking of building up a nice new road wheelset for my geared bike, using modern hubs, an 8speed casette, and suntour barend (friction!) shifters.

I want modern hubs because the bearings are generally better, and because better quality casettes are more easily had than freewheels. I want 8 speed so I can use generic chain.

Do campy and shimano casettes both have the same spacing all the way through their casettes? I think I recall hearing somewhere that the spacing is smaller in the higher gears than the lower ones. This I think would be bad for a friction setup.

But is there any real difference in bearing quality or durability between Chorus and Ultegra? If chorus is better, can one put a shimano freehub body on a campy hub?

What about deraillers? Can a modern 105/veloce derailler take 3/32" chain, or are the rollers too small?

What about casette availability? Anybody want to venture a prediction on the availability of quality 8 speed casettes into the future?

Thanks!

cs1

I had a set of SunTour barcons on my old Schwinn and they worked very well.

Sounds good so far.

[QUOTE=genericbikedude]Yes but it is differen spacing between Campy and Shimano. I think I recall hearing somewhere that the spacing is smaller in the higher gears than the lower ones. This I think would be bad for a friction setup.[/quote}
It was SunTour that had the different spacing. Campy and Shimano use the same size spacers in their cassettes.

Yes, Chorus is much better, no doubt about it.
No

I don't know about Shimano but Campy uses different pulleys on 8,9 and 10. You can use a 10 speed derailleur but need the larger 8 speed pulleys. Campy front derailleurs can handle 5-10 speed.

8 speed cassettes are getting a little more difficult to find. You can pick up nice examples of Campy on ebay from $35-$50

Good luck

Tim

af895

Trickle-down effect: your local bicycle co-operative will likely have a drawer full of 8-speed cassettes. ($5 each, at our local co-op) None of the ones we have are Campy - all Shimano. I would suggest Shimano-compatible equipment to you simply because it's more common and therefore you'll have an easier time sourcing parts. (especially used)

Sheldon Brown

You're spending all this money, why not buy modern indexed shifters too? Friction shifting with modern (Hyperglide) sprockets is kinda dodgy, because the modern sprockets don't give you a good audible/tactile indication if you don't have the derailer lined up properly.

A pair of wonderful Shimano indexed barcons costs about the same as a cassette.


You're mistaken if you think there's been any improvement in bearing quality in our lifetime.

8-speed really doesn't make much sense in my opinion. You're using the same hub spacing, same amount of wheel dish, just throwing away one gear for no good reason. (I don't consider saving $4 on the price of a replacement chain to be a good reason.)


The spacing is the same within the cassette for all stuff designed for indexed shifting. (The spacing is different between Shimano and Campanolo though.

See: https://sheldonbrown.com/spacing


I'd go with Ultegra. Shimano hubs are superior in design, and there's a much greater choice of cassettes available to fit them.


Every derailer ever made works with 3/32" chain, that's a non-issue.


It has been sporadically very poor in Campagnolo. Shimano has done a good job supporting 8-speed, but I would expect 8-speed to go out actually before 7-speed does, since conversion from 8- to 9-speed is so easy.

I think you may be over-thinking this project.

Sheldon "More Is More" Brown

BluesDawg

I'm using old Suntour barends to shift shimano-spaced SRAM 8-speed cassette and it works great. 8 speed has about the same spacing as 7 speed. I have not tried it, but I would think 9 and 10 speed would be a little trickier due to narrower spacing.

My Campy 9 speed Racing Triple rear der. works just fine with SRAM 8 speed chains.

ctp

Good point.

my initial reaction to all of this was "Cripes...I still use 5 speed freewheels on some of my bikes!" but I'm a retro-grouch according to some (yea, I use 9 speed and index on some of my bikes too...they are ALL enjoyable to ride however)

Run what you "need", is easily available, doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and will last. Beyond that don't sweat it. Most of the time, for most riders if you aren't racing in The Tour, that means Shimano (and I don't mean DuraAce .

genericbikedude

Thanks for all of the input folks. I'm stuck with the 8-speed friction setup. Hell, I'd choose 5-speed if good quality 5-speed freewheels were still made, and I could find a good frame in 120mm. I'd go with indexing, if indexing had any real benefit. But it doesn't. Plus, you lose the power-ratchet suntour dealie.

I'll probably go with ultegra in light of the 8-speed support issues. The hyperglide thing that Sheldon mentioned is a non-issue, as I'm currently using my friction barends on a modern 8speed casette on my current beater bike. It works great, and I've found that it works EVEN BETTER with modern deraillers, as the lighter derailler return spring makes shifting lighter and easier.

TallRider

I'm running an old Shimano 600 friction bar-end shifter on my commuter bike, shifting a Shimano derailler over a 13-28 shimano compatible ramped (hyperglide-style) 7-speed freewheel. Works great. Bar-ends are really easy to use without indexing in my experience. (And yes, I just installed Shimano 9-speed barends on my good road bike.)

ivan_yulaev

Friction shifting couldn't give a rat's ass about spacing or anything like that. As far as I know, it is pretty much bulletproof. 5 speed, 10 speed, whatever, it doesn't care. If it works by pulling a cable, friction can work it.

GrannyGear

I friction shift Shimano 8spd cassette (105 rd) with 9spd DuraAce barends set on friction. Shifts are light, smooth as butter, and easy to hit. I also shift friction with SunTour ratchet action barcons on a SunTour 7spd freewheel (XCPro rd). The performance differences are minimal but for "feel", I somehow prefer the smoothness of the DA barends. The ST barcons are ageless, bombproof, and will outlast me absolutely.

Best shifting of all is Mavic retrofriction dt shifters and a 6spd cassette. Not quite as convenient but nothing to really think about once you're down the road. I also ride Ultegra brifters and, while the most convenient, aren't the most enjoyable. But, we're talking about shifting a bicycle here....not sex, art, or gourmet cooking.

Deanster04

Have Record indexed bar end shifters on my TT setup. I won a dinner by swapping the indexed rear for the friction front shifters when a friend said it was impossible to do. I did it and found that I had no problems shifting 10 spds with the friction shifter. When it goes its there not much play required. I rode for 50 miles before I won my dinner by never missing a shift. Its a "feel" thing. Swapped back for mindless shifting.