Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Is S.I.S. compressionless housing off limits for brakes?

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Is S.I.S. compressionless housing off limits for brakes?

Old 03-13-06, 04:22 PM
  #1  
masi61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,943

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Is S.I.S. compressionless housing off limits for brakes?

Hello: I've been stocking up on some bike parts on ebay this winter and I bought this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-XT-SIS-S...QQcmdZViewItem.
It is really stiff! the cable strands run lengthwise through it instead of the "wound" style that I'm more familiar with. The instructions say its only for derailleur use not brake use. I was just wondering: What difference does it make ? If stiff is good for derailleurs wouldn't the same be true for brakes as well? Also it appears as if I will need to purchase the Shimano "TL-CT 10" cable cutter since my Park CN-4 doesn't have the hexagonal crimper for securing the ferules.
masi61 is offline  
Old 03-13-06, 04:31 PM
  #2  
Sheldon Brown
Gone, but not forgotten
 
Sheldon Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Newtonville, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,301

Bikes: See: http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Originally Posted by masi61
Hello: I've been stocking up on some bike parts on ebay this winter and I bought this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-XT-SIS-S...QQcmdZViewItem.
It is really stiff! the cable strands run lengthwise through it instead of the "wound" style that I'm more familiar with. The instructions say its only for derailleur use not brake use. I was just wondering: What difference does it make ? If stiff is good for derailleurs wouldn't the same be true for brakes as well?
No! The cable tension is much higher for brakes, and this type of cable housing can rupture under the higher stress, causing sudden, complete brake failure!

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cables


Originally Posted by masi61
Also it appears as if I will need to purchase the Shimano "TL-CT 10" cable cutter since my Park CN-4 doesn't have the hexagonal crimper for securing the ferules.
Nah, you don't need that. There's actually no need to crimp the ferrules.

Sheldon "SLR Not SIS" Brown
Code:
+-----------------------------------------------------+
|   If the King's English was good enough for Jesus,  |
|   it's good enough for me!                          |
|   -- "Ma" Ferguson, Governor of Texas (circa 1920)  |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Sheldon Brown is offline  
Old 03-13-06, 04:40 PM
  #3  
Avalanche325
Senior Member
 
Avalanche325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 3,162

Bikes: Litespeed Firenze / GT Avalanche

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You put tons more pressure on you brakes than you do on a deraileur cable. On a der, you are only pulling against the return spring plus whatever bind you get as the chain climbs. Not much.

If the cable housing on a brake cable collapses, it has the same effect as a broken cable.

Look at it like this. Let's just look at the piece of cable housing from the brake lever to the front brake. It does a nice smooth arc. This give a constant distance that the cable has to go from end to end. Let's say you let it get old and rusty. With the strands running parallel to the cable the cable could actually rip through between two strands. You now have a slack cable and no brakes.

On the spiral wound one, the spiral wraps round and round the cable, so the cable can't rip out throught the strands. Even if the spiral wire in the housing breaks, the cable itself will guide the ends together and still give you that constant distance that you need. If the housing breaks, you still have brakes.
Avalanche325 is offline  
Old 03-13-06, 04:41 PM
  #4  
dooley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If there's some reason you want to run a stuffer cable Odyssey do a linear cable. It's for bmx brakes without a gyro so that you can spin the bars without having the cable lock the brakes. As long as you cut it neatly and use the ferrules it shouldn't burst.
dooley is offline  
Old 03-13-06, 04:54 PM
  #5  
masi61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,943

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Thanks for the prompt reply. I knew there had to be a reason why the stuff was no good for brake housing. So just sliding the ferule on without crimping is sufficient?
masi61 is offline  
Old 03-13-06, 09:20 PM
  #6  
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 31,340

Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1089 Post(s)
Originally Posted by masi61
So just sliding the ferule on without crimping is sufficient?
Yes, absolutely. Crimping is completely unnecessary.
HillRider is offline  
Old 03-14-06, 12:43 AM
  #7  
neilG
Senior Member
 
neilG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 444

Bikes: Madone, De Rosa, Langster, some old Brit track iron

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We hooked up a brake with SIS housing at the bike shop once to see what would happen. The housing just exploded, the longitudinal wires in the housing just burst the plastic wrapping. Cool.
neilG is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 05:19 PM
  #8  
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 5,924

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Yes, absolutely. Crimping is completely unnecessary.
Is it unnecessary for both brake and der. cables?
no motor? is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 06:00 PM
  #9  
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 31,340

Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1089 Post(s)
Originally Posted by no motor? View Post
Is it unnecessary for both brake and der. cables?
Sure, how are they going to slide off by themselves once the cables are hooked up? Shimano's plastic ferules for SIS derailleur cable housing are a snug press fit on the housing and Campy's ferules for Ergo shift housing are a fairly loose fit but neither are crimped.
HillRider is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 06:02 PM
  #10  
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 5,924

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Sure, how are they going to slide off by themselves once the cables are hooked up? Shimano's plastic ferules for SIS derailleur cable housing are a snug press fit on the housing and Campy's ferules for Ergo shift housing are a fairly loose fit but neither are crimped.
I didn't think they needed to be, but wanted to find out before I put everything back together tonight. Thanks for answering.
no motor? is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 07:13 PM
  #11  
Michel Gagnon
Year-round cyclist
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Montréal (Québec)
Posts: 3,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The only reason manufacturers crimp ferrules is to keep them in place during installation. It saves about 0,2 seconds overall
Michel Gagnon is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 07:17 PM
  #12  
frozin
wrench
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: maryland
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Most BMX companies have switched to woven linear cable housing for brakes, so look at purchasing Odyssey Linear brake cables if you want the same effect. These cables have kevlar woven into the housing so they won't 'explode'
frozin is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 07:43 PM
  #13  
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,321

Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon View Post
The only reason manufacturers crimp ferrules is to keep them in place during installation. It saves about 0,2 seconds overall
YOu waste more than .2s crimping them anyways.
operator is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 07:52 PM
  #14  
familyguy
Running on plenty
 
familyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 168

Bikes: Too many to list

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
I have reversed the OP situation with a good result though i.e. Using brake outer cable as derailleur outer cable. I have the right length of offcut brake outer that I am using as rear derailleur outer cable. No compression in that puppy. And it looks the same, most important.

I know Sheldon points out the bend may change the length of the cable, thereby affecting shifting. But its on an old SIS 6-speed, and hasnt had any ill effects so date. I wouldnt put it on a modern 8/9/10 speed though, as the tolerance are much less.

Jim
familyguy is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 08:31 PM
  #15  
HillRider 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 31,340

Bikes: '''96 Litespeed Catalyst, '05 Litespeed Firenze, '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '12 Surly Pacer, All are 3x8,9 or 10. It is hilly around here!

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1089 Post(s)
I've also used brake housing for the rear short piece that goes from the chainstay stop to the rear derailleur and it has worked fine. The section is short enough that the length change will be minimal and I've only used it on 7-speed indexing systems. I agree, I wouldn't try it on a 9 or 10-speed drivetrain.
HillRider is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 09:16 PM
  #16  
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 5,924

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon View Post
The only reason manufacturers crimp ferrules is to keep them in place during installation. It saves about 0,2 seconds overall
That's what I was thinking. I figured there must be some reason why the ones I was taking off had been crimped and that was the only reason I could come up with.
no motor? is offline  
Old 01-29-08, 05:28 AM
  #17  
maddmaxx 
Small Member
 
maddmaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,164

Bikes: Diamondback Clarity II frame homebuilt.

Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9997 Post(s)
Originally Posted by frozin View Post
Most BMX companies have switched to woven linear cable housing for brakes, so look at purchasing Odyssey Linear brake cables if you want the same effect. These cables have kevlar woven into the housing so they won't 'explode'
The same is true for "Alligator" Super Fortress cable kits.
maddmaxx is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.