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shimano barcon shifter help

Old 04-12-06, 01:00 PM
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shimano barcon shifter help

Can you change the gear in a Shimano barcon shifter like the newer Campy shifters? I would like to use a set of indexed Shimano 7 speed barcons on a project bike. 8 and 9 are readily available but no 7 speed.

Tim
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Old 04-12-06, 01:11 PM
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if you have a set of 7 speed downtube shifters, you can get these. otherwise, you can always use the friction mode on an 8 or 9 speed bar end shifter.
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Old 04-12-06, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OneTinSloth
if you have a set of 7 speed downtube shifters, you can get these. otherwise, you can always use the friction mode on an 8 or 9 speed bar end shifter.
The DiaTech adaptors look great thanks. I was wondering if you could take the gear out of a set of downtube shifters and put them in the barcons. It is possible with Campy, I've done it.


Tim
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Old 04-12-06, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cs1
Can you change the gear in a Shimano barcon shifter like the newer Campy shifters? I would like to use a set of indexed Shimano 7 speed barcons on a project bike. 8 and 9 are readily available but no 7 speed.

Tim
Are you saying you already have a 7spd barcon? Or, do you just want to index 7 speeds but can't find an indexed 7spd barcon? See my next comment for a 7spd indexed barcon solution.

The 8spd barcons work just fine with a seven speed cassette. I have an old 126mm rear hub bike set up exactly like this. It's a great setup and very solid. Just make sure your "Low" limit stop is set properly on the RD and that will pretty much eliminate the shifter getting to the eighth position.

If you check this page:

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shifters.html

Sheldon has a comment on this in this section:

"Shimano Ultegra 8 Speed Bar-end Shifters"
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Old 04-13-06, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cascade168
Are you saying you already have a 7spd barcon? Or, do you just want to index 7 speeds but can't find an indexed 7spd barcon? See my next comment for a 7spd indexed barcon solution.

The 8spd barcons work just fine with a seven speed cassette. I have an old 126mm rear hub bike set up exactly like this. It's a great setup and very solid. Just make sure your "Low" limit stop is set properly on the RD and that will pretty much eliminate the shifter getting to the eighth position.

If you check this page:

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shifters.html

Sheldon has a comment on this in this section:

"Shimano Ultegra 8 Speed Bar-end Shifters"
I don't have a set of 7 speed barcons now. I was wondering if you could alter the very common 8,9 or 10 speed versions to accept 7 speed. I know friction is an option but I'd rather have indexing if possible. Being a Campy user I am unfamiliar with the Shimano spacing system for their cassettes. Thanks for the info on the 8 speed systems.

Tim
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Old 04-13-06, 07:39 AM
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7 Speeds on Ebay

https://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-Ultegra-...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 04-13-06, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cs1
I don't have a set of 7 speed barcons now. I was wondering if you could alter the very common 8,9 or 10 speed versions to accept 7 speed. I know friction is an option but I'd rather have indexing if possible. Being a Campy user I am unfamiliar with the Shimano spacing system for their cassettes. Thanks for the info on the 8 speed systems.

Tim
Shimano spacing for 7-speed systems: 5.0 mm.
Shimano spacing for 8-speed systems: 4.8 mm.

You should be able to get away with indexing 8-speed bar end shifters on a seven-speed freewheel or cassette. This is what I'm planning to do with the 8-speed shifters that I just bought.
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Old 04-13-06, 08:06 PM
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It is very possible to use 9-speed shifters with 7 speed cassettes. There are two ways to do it.

1. You could route the cable differently on the derailleur, as explained here. Basically, follow routing "B" which works for a 9-speed shifter with an 8-speed cassette. Since 7 and 8 are so close to each other, it will work.

2. Install ShiftMate #2.

Method one is cheaper but a bit tricker to install. And since the cable has a little more tension, you will need to adjust indexing a little more often.
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Old 04-14-06, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
Shimano spacing for 7-speed systems: 5.0 mm.
Shimano spacing for 8-speed systems: 4.8 mm.

You should be able to get away with indexing 8-speed bar end shifters on a seven-speed freewheel or cassette. This is what I'm planning to do with the 8-speed shifters that I just bought.
Update: This is indeed possible. I've only taken the bicycle on a short spin, so I can't report on it long-term. It does seem less than optimal - I haven't figured out how to get the indexing adjusted well enough to prevent some roughness in at least one gear. However, it doesn't seem to be actually jumping out of gear, and it is smooth in most of them. Any tips on adjusting the indexing to get it to work smoothly for all gears?
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Old 04-15-06, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by grolby
Update: This is indeed possible. I've only taken the bicycle on a short spin, so I can't report on it long-term. It does seem less than optimal - I haven't figured out how to get the indexing adjusted well enough to prevent some roughness in at least one gear. However, it doesn't seem to be actually jumping out of gear, and it is smooth in most of them. Any tips on adjusting the indexing to get it to work smoothly for all gears?
I never thought about it but, what about 8 speed spacers. The problem is you might have some free play. Or does the locknut take care of that? This is getting interesting.

Tim
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Old 04-15-06, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1
I never thought about it but, what about 8 speed spacers. The problem is you might have some free play. Or does the locknut take care of that? This is getting interesting.

Tim
That might work if I were using a 7-speed cassette, but I am using a freewheel.
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Old 04-15-06, 12:15 PM
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I am using the JTEK Shifmate to make 9-speed downtube shifters index perfectly with my 8-speed cassette. He will customize the adapter to just about any combo you need, same price as stock. An easy fix.
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Old 04-15-06, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Michel Gagnon
It is very possible to use 9-speed shifters with 7 speed cassettes. There are two ways to do it.

1. You could route the cable differently on the derailleur, as explained here. Basically, follow routing "B" which works for a 9-speed shifter with an 8-speed cassette. Since 7 and 8 are so close to each other, it will work.

2. Install ShiftMate #2.

Method one is cheaper but a bit tricker to install. And since the cable has a little more tension, you will need to adjust indexing a little more often.
Your link to Sheldon's page says that this will work with a 10-speed shifter on a 9-speed cassette. Are you saying that it will work with an 8-speed shifter on a 7-speed cassette/freewheel? This is the set up I have.
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Old 04-15-06, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
Are you saying that it will work with an 8-speed shifter on a 7-speed cassette/freewheel? This is the set up I have.
As I said in the #4 posting in this thread, it's the same setup I have, as well. And, it works just fine. There is nothing tricky about setting it up at all. Just set the "L" (low) limit properly for the 7spd cassette and it will prevent the 8spd barcon from getting into the "8" position, thereby rendering it a 7spd barcon. The spacing is not an issue. It works perfectly. Solid as a rock.

The only issue that you may have to be concerned about is what hub you have(cs1, you never said what hub you had). If you have a hub that was designed for 7spd cassettes you just put the cassette on, use the 8spd barcons and adjust the limit as I described. If you have a new hub that is designed for 8/9spd and you put a 7spd cassette on it you must install a 4.5mm spacer on the inside before the cassette. Then, again, set your limit correctly and use your 8spd barcons. These spacers can be obtained from Harris Cyclery for about $5. Enjoy!
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Old 04-15-06, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cascade168
As I said in the #4 posting in this thread, it's the same setup I have, as well. And, it works just fine.
You misunderstood my question. I was asking if using the alternate cable routing would help. As it is, I've gotten it working, but it's a bit marginal in my two highest gears. I have it set up so that the highest index setting is "empty" - that is, I'm using the high-gear limit stop on the derailer to stop it from trying to move off the smallest cog. Perhaps I should try it the other way around? On the other hand, if using the alternate cable routing will do the trick, I see no reason not to try it.
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Old 04-15-06, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
You misunderstood my question. I was asking if using the alternate cable routing would help. As it is, I've gotten it working, but it's a bit marginal in my two highest gears. I have it set up so that the highest index setting is "empty" - that is, I'm using the high-gear limit stop on the derailer to stop it from trying to move off the smallest cog. Perhaps I should try it the other way around? On the other hand, if using the alternate cable routing will do the trick, I see no reason not to try it.
Yes, I did misunderstand your question.

But, oy vey, you guys are making this so much more difficult than it needs to be. There is no need for ShiftMates or alternate routing. What exactly is the setup you are having problems with? If you are using any current Shimano RD with the non-DuraAce 8spd barcons it should work perfectly. If you are having problems with just the two top highest gears (the two smallest cogs, right?) then that is more than likely an initial cable pull setting problem combined with a tweak or two on the cable tension.

Here's the routine:

Disconnect the cable from the RD. Eyeball the alignment (from behind the bike) of the high gear (smallest cog) and the jockey wheel. Adjust the "H" limit screw if they are not lined up. Now, simultaneously turn the crank arm with your right hand and, with your left hand, manually push the RD so that the chain climbs up a cog or two. Release the RD and the chain should jump back down to the high gear smoothly. If it's not smooth, or jumps off the cog towards the dropout, then your limit is not set correctly. Adjust as necessary. Now adjust the low ("L") limit. With the cable still unattached, crank the drivetrain and manually push the RD in as far as it will go. It should move the chain up to the biggest cog (= low gear) and no further. If the chain goes past the big cog and jumps off the cassette towards the spokes, then your "L" limit screw is too far out. Adjust the "L" limit screw until the chain moves onto the low gear, but not beyond it. As with the "H" limit, when you have the "L" limit set correctly you should be able to eyeball it from directly behind the bike - while still pushing the RD all the way in - and see that the biggest cog and the jockey wheel are lined up exactly. Once you get the limit screws set correctly, re-attach the cable (make sure the barcon is set for the highest gear - if it's on the end of drop bars then the lever should be pointing straight down, or close to it). Before you tighten the holding bolt for the cable, turn the barrel adjuster on the RD in all the way. This would be full clockwise if you are looking at it from the back of the bike. This way, once you lock down the cable you can increase tension on the cable by turning the barrel adjuster counterclockwise. If you have any other cable tension adjusters, such a downtube barrel adjuster, adjust it to minimum (just like you did to the one on the RD) for the same reason. Now, pull the slack out of the cable with a pair of pliers or a cable stretcher (i.e. "4th hand") if you have one and tighten the locking bolt. Crank the drivetrain and shift the barcon to the next gear (which should be "6th" in a 7spd system). The chain should move up to the next cog. If it does not, turn the barrel adjuster to increase the tension in the cable. If you have to turn the barrel adjuster much more than a full turn, then you did not pull enough slack out of the cable before you locked it down. Go back and fix this or your barrel adjusters may not be able to gain enough cable tension on their own. Keep shifting back and forth between 7th and 6th gears and adjust the cable tension until you get a good and consistent shift between the two. Often once you get these two set properly the rest of the shifts will index properly. If there is some problem in any of the other gears indexing then carefully add more cable tension in small increments (i.e. a quarter turn at a time). Just a little fine adjustment should do the trick.

Your 8spd barcon with your 7spd cassette should now be working fine. The only thing that you should need to do to it in the future is add a little more tension to the cable after some time on it. It will stretch out a very small amount and a quarter or half turn on the barrel adjuster should make it perfect again.

While it's possible to set limits with the cable attached, it's much better, and easier, to set them with the cable out of the picture. Also, by doing it this way you know, for sure, that they are set properly and there is no shifter or cable tension issue to cloud the proceedure.

Rear derailleurs are very straightforward and simple to adjust. Unfortunately, front derailleurs - triples in particular - are not. The best thing about barcons is that they usually don't offer indexing for the front derailleur. This is a blessing, for sure. Best luck with the fine adjustments.
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Old 04-15-06, 10:18 PM
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Heh, thanks for spelling out the whole thing. Turns out that the only thing I did wrong was starting from the "2nd gear" position on the shifters (as I sort of suspected was the case). I thought it would be better to have the extra click on the high end, where the cable tension would release, rather than tighten if I tried to go too far. Well, I was wrong! Luckily, I was already doing everything else pretty much your way. On the stand, starting from the "1st gear" position, it appeared to work perfectly the very first time. When I actually take it for a ride tomorrow, I suspect that minimal adjustment will be needed, and very possibly zero. Sorry for being a bozo, I'm a bit new to installing index shifters!
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Old 04-16-06, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cascade168
As I said in the #4 posting in this thread, it's the same setup I have, as well. And, it works just fine. There is nothing tricky about setting it up at all. Just set the "L" (low) limit properly for the 7spd cassette and it will prevent the 8spd barcon from getting into the "8" position, thereby rendering it a 7spd barcon. The spacing is not an issue. It works perfectly. Solid as a rock.

The only issue that you may have to be concerned about is what hub you have(cs1, you never said what hub you had). If you have a hub that was designed for 7spd cassettes you just put the cassette on, use the 8spd barcons and adjust the limit as I described. If you have a new hub that is designed for 8/9spd and you put a 7spd cassette on it you must install a 4.5mm spacer on the inside before the cassette. Then, again, set your limit correctly and use your 8spd barcons. These spacers can be obtained from Harris Cyclery for about $5. Enjoy!
The hub is a 7 speed cassette hub.

Tim
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Old 04-16-06, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by grolby
Heh, thanks for spelling out the whole thing. Turns out that the only thing I did wrong was starting from the "2nd gear" position on the shifters (as I sort of suspected was the case). I thought it would be better to have the extra click on the high end, where the cable tension would release, rather than tighten if I tried to go too far. Well, I was wrong! Luckily, I was already doing everything else pretty much your way. On the stand, starting from the "1st gear" position, it appeared to work perfectly the very first time. When I actually take it for a ride tomorrow, I suspect that minimal adjustment will be needed, and very possibly zero. Sorry for being a bozo, I'm a bit new to installing index shifters!
You bring up a good point. When you use an 8spd barcon with a 7spd cassette you end up using the 2nd through 8th spd positions on the barcon, not the 1st through 7th. If you were to use it with rapid rise RD, then it would be the other way around.

I'm sure you will love your new shifters when you get them set up. They really are solid.

Happy Easter to all of you that are celebrating!

Cheers,
Bill
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