Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

700x28s to 700x23s More speed?

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

700x28s to 700x23s More speed?

Old 07-23-06, 01:52 PM
  #1  
dauphin
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dauphin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
Posts: 2,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
700x28s to 700x23s More speed?

I am planning to switch my current tires to 25s or even 23s from the current 28s. Is there a measurable increase in speed with such a switch?
__________________
dauphin is offline  
Old 07-23-06, 01:58 PM
  #2  
fmw
Hoosier Pedaler
 
fmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No, sorry.
__________________
Fred
A tour of my stable of bicycles
fmw is offline  
Old 07-23-06, 01:59 PM
  #3  
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,349

Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Yes to 28-23s.
operator is offline  
Old 07-23-06, 02:19 PM
  #4  
Mothra
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There is a difference based upon tyre-pressure... but it's minimal... something like 5-ft in 10k or some such...
Mothra is offline  
Old 07-23-06, 02:51 PM
  #5  
late
Senior Member
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,548
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8908 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times in 26 Posts
It depends a lot on what tires are involved. If you are going from an anchor like Conti Top Touring to a racing tire, you will notice a difference. The Conti weighs like 500 grams, a racer will weigh half as much. The Conti gets it's sweet ride from having a buttery soft sidewall. That buttery feeling also flexes when you pedal.
I also have a Ruffy Tuffy 27c tire which is as big as most 28c tires. It feels quick.

What tire do you have now? Does it have a thick tread?
late is offline  
Old 07-23-06, 03:00 PM
  #6  
nova
hill hater
 
nova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: norton ohio 5.5 miles from center road tow path trail head
Posts: 2,127

Bikes: cannondale t400 1987 model and a raleigh gran prix from 1973

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think goign from a comfort/touring tire like a 28 to a 23 more racing quality tire will have a fairly noticable change you got rolling resistance rolling weight higher air presure diffrence in tread patern or lack of tread with a slick. It wont be nothing spectacular but id say a few mph more (3 to 4) max speed avarage over the long haul wouldnt be a exageration
nova is offline  
Old 07-23-06, 03:17 PM
  #7  
CrossChain
Senior Member
 
CrossChain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi, Dauphin....nice to meet up here. Depends on how crummy those mountain roads are that you're descending on. On fairly OK roads I'd compromise on a good 25 performance tire. If the roads are pitted, patched, and gravelled....go with the RuffyTuffies from Rivendell-- they're still livelier and a tad narrower than 28c touring or general purpose tires. For that matter, sustained climbing with hard jolts and chatter over rough surfaces can be wearing on you....I'd stick with 25's at least.

Last edited by CrossChain; 07-23-06 at 03:24 PM.
CrossChain is offline  
Old 07-24-06, 06:41 PM
  #8  
fmw
Hoosier Pedaler
 
fmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nova
I think goign from a comfort/touring tire like a 28 to a 23 more racing quality tire will have a fairly noticable change you got rolling resistance rolling weight higher air presure diffrence in tread patern or lack of tread with a slick. It wont be nothing spectacular but id say a few mph more (3 to 4) max speed avarage over the long haul wouldnt be a exageration
I would say that would be a colossal exaggeration.
__________________
Fred
A tour of my stable of bicycles
fmw is offline  
Old 07-24-06, 11:36 PM
  #9  
silversmith
Yet another vegan biker
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Trapped behind the corn curtain
Posts: 965

Bikes: Sakae Prism, Vintage Fuji bike(S), too many bikes, one from scratch bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I ripped an IRC Paperlite 23 on a road hazzard last weekend and my LBS needed to order a new set for me. In the meantime I bought a pair of the cheap Bontrager 28's for training tires.

These Bontragers are much heavier and take 30lbs less pressure. Even with those extreme differences I couldn't detect any differences on the flats save for the more comfortable ride. Going uphill is another matter. Those IRC Paperlites are like adding a bigger rear cog.

My opinion? Unless you are a serious racer you will be better off with 28's.
silversmith is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 12:13 AM
  #10  
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,349

Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by fmw
I would say that would be a colossal exaggeration.
Yep.
operator is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 01:49 PM
  #11  
blue steal
Day Tourer
 
blue steal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 208

Bikes: 93Univega/Carisma/Cromo/7spd

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My bike came with a 38 knobby and I switched it out to a performance 35 city tire and noticed a difference in handling and acceleration. Then I went to a 32 Avocet slick. I didn't notice much of a difference. Tried the Ruffy Tuffy 28, (actually a 27), and wow what a difference in both handling and acceleration. This is a good tire for my commuting and touring. Now I go back and forth between the Ruffy Tuffy and the Michelin pro race 23. I use the 23 for the club rides, and yes there is a slight difference in speed from a 28 to a 23. How much? Not sure, and maybe it's just in my head. But the michelin does handle nice and hill climbing seems a bit easier and quicker. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
blue steal is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 02:14 PM
  #12  
slowandsteady
Faster but still slow
 
slowandsteady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 5,979

Bikes: Trek 830 circa 1993 and a Fuji WSD Finest 1.0 2006

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would say that would be a colossal exaggeration.
Agreed!
I went from knobbies to slicks(26x1.25) and got a 3 mph increase in average speed. I then went from the MTB with slicks(85 psi) to a Road bike with 700x23c(100psi), and saw a 0.5-1 mph increase in ave speed. So I am guessing you would see essentially no difference going from 28s to 23s.
slowandsteady is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 02:25 PM
  #13  
bmike
Bye Bye
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gone gone gone
Posts: 3,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been using 23s on a light set of wheels for short rides / group rides.
25's on my randoneurring wheels (with dyno light).
...and as soon as my new frame arrives, I'll be using 28's. (they won't fit in my current frame)

I'm a fan of brevets and distance - so comfort and speed are important - but if I'm too beat to continue (how I felt on 23's after my first Brevet), speed means nothing.

Depending on make, weight, etc. you may feel a difference, but I doubt it.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
bmike is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 02:28 PM
  #14  
dauphin
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dauphin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: California
Posts: 2,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think I will just leave it as is. I go fast enough already.
__________________
dauphin is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 03:49 PM
  #15  
moxfyre
cyclist/gearhead/cycli...
 
moxfyre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DC / Maryland suburbs
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Homebuilt tourer/commuter, modified-beyond-recognition 1990 Trek 1100, reasonably stock 2002-ish Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by late
It depends a lot on what tires are involved. If you are going from an anchor like Conti Top Touring to a racing tire, you will notice a difference. The Conti weighs like 500 grams, a racer will weigh half as much. The Conti gets it's sweet ride from having a buttery soft sidewall. That buttery feeling also flexes when you pedal.
I also have a Ruffy Tuffy 27c tire which is as big as most 28c tires. It feels quick.

What tire do you have now? Does it have a thick tread?
Agreed on all points! Just to break it down a little more:

* The width of the tire itself makes a pretty minuscule difference (perhaps a small effect on the rolling resistance)
* The weight is important for fast acceleration (you'll notice substantially improved acceleration if you decrease the amount of rotating weight)
* A smooth tread is important for lowered rolling resistance
moxfyre is offline  
Old 07-25-06, 10:25 PM
  #16  
oilman_15106
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
25 rear 23 front. Works for me.
oilman_15106 is offline  
Old 07-26-06, 07:47 AM
  #17  
TallRider
Senior Member
 
TallRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,431
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Yup, weight matters more than rolling resistance here. And remember, weight only matters for acceleration and climbing, and only matters as rotating weight for acceleration. So this means that if you're riding at a relatively even pace on relatively easy terrain, you don't lose much with fatter tires. Which are more comfortable because you can run them at a lower pressure. And fatter, lower-pressure tires are actually faster on some surfaces, for the same reason that a car with suspension is faster than a car without - wheels stay in contact with the ground better.
TallRider is offline  
Old 07-26-06, 08:18 AM
  #18  
fmw
Hoosier Pedaler
 
fmw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,432
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by timcupery
Yup, weight matters more than rolling resistance here. And remember, weight only matters for acceleration and climbing, and only matters as rotating weight for acceleration. So this means that if you're riding at a relatively even pace on relatively easy terrain, you don't lose much with fatter tires. Which are more comfortable because you can run them at a lower pressure. And fatter, lower-pressure tires are actually faster on some surfaces, for the same reason that a car with suspension is faster than a car without - wheels stay in contact with the ground better.
To put these comments into perspective, what Tim says is true but some of it is insignificant. Rolling resistance from one similar tire to another is measurable but certainly not noticeable in use, Neither is the rotating weight of similar tires. These are things that make for good marketing but not necessarily a good basis for making purchase decisions. They just don't matter in practice.

Cyclists love to pour over tiny little details that just don't really matter when it comes to riding a bike. Hobbyists of every stripe do the same thing. As an example, the weight weenies make much of a few grams of weight saved. It is a hobby and an interesting one but has little to do with bicycle riding. A few grams (or even pounds) one way or the other are really pretty meaningless. Bike fit and gearing can make a very noticeable difference in bike performance but weight (within a reasonable limit) is a minor one.

No doubt, however, that larger tires at lower pressure make for a more comfortable ride. That one is readily noticeable.
__________________
Fred
A tour of my stable of bicycles
fmw is offline  
Old 07-26-06, 01:10 PM
  #19  
Mothra
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah, we get into analyzing the minute details and while qualitatively there are differences, in real-world results of quantitative measurements, the actual differences are very, very minor. If you can devise a proper double-blind test to compare 28 vs. 23c tyres, you'll find that there's very little difference in performance. Even then, it's gonna have to be at the upper-ends of speeds, such as in all-out racing conditions or TTs and the differences will be a matter of seconds per hour or just a meter or two per kilometer.
Mothra is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
spectastic
Bicycle Mechanics
4
07-05-19 06:39 PM
asmac
Advocacy & Safety
58
01-30-15 10:30 AM
MiloFrance
Classic & Vintage
2
09-25-14 11:50 AM
alwaysbefirst
Road Cycling
1
07-25-05 03:26 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.