Ptrbilt

Hello Everyone

I'm building my first road bike and have a question about the different level of the Campy components, as they would compare to Shimano. I by no means want to start the which is better thread. I've already decided to go the Campy route. The goal is to build the bike using components I find on Craig's list or eBay etc. So far it has gone very well and in the end I'll probably find out that I paid as much as a decent bike from the LBS.

Shimano Campy

Dura Ace---------->Record
Ultegra------------>Chorus
105--------------->Centaur
Sora-------------->Veloce

Is this correct or am I missing something?

Thanks for the help,
Peter B

reverborama

Oh good Lord! Why don't you just draw a pentagram on the floor and chant the name of a daemon?

HillRider

Well, the Campy folks will be highly insulted but you aren't far off. Realistically, from a price point the pecking order is probably more like this:

Record (at the top all by itself)
Dura Ace
Chorus
Ultegra ----Centaur
105 --------Veloce
Mirage
Sora -------Xenon

Dura Ace and Record are both used by Pro teams with great success so the distinction is more of cost rather than functionality.

Metaluna

Chorus and Record are very close in terms of build quality, but Record generally has more carbon bits and is lighter. There's no way Sora is even close to Veloce.

BTW, shouldn't Tiagra be in there somewhere?

CHenry

Dura Ace and Record are comparable in utility and renown. Dura Ace brifters are hugely expensive and Record a little less so, especially in the USA. The reverse is true for drivetrain components. Campagnolo seems to be more committed to carbon fiber technology, which hasn't dimmed the popularity of Dura Ace one bit.

Both lines offer less costly but similar iterations of their leading pro lines, which is where Ultegra and Chorus, 105 and Centaur take their places. With those, the price point seems to be as important as the feature set. The discussion about the marginal benefit of either has endless potential. Sort of like Muzak.

colnago57

This is spot on. If you want to check the functionality of components, you can always check for pics of the bikes that a lot of the really small Euro teams use (like D III). Since they usually don't get a lot of free stuff they'll use the stuff that lasts and is not quite so costly (a lot of Campy Chorus).

mayukawa

I somewhat disagree with the rankings...I think you've to compare at a component by component level. For example, I think external BB's on the 10sp Shimanos are better than any of the square tapered BB's used in any of the Campy's (I'm not saying bearing smoothness, just stiffness). Of course they're changing that with the upcoming release. Anybody want to bet on the stiffness of DA crank vs. Record Al or carbon fiber crank? Prior to the 10sp Shimano groups, I think Dura Ace used to stand well above their other groups. However, with 10sp, their groups are closer together in performance and functionality (like how Campy has their groups).

HillRider

Actually Campy's square taper bottom brackets paired with Chorus or Record cranks run a very close second to Dura Ace or Ultegra with their external bearing bottom brackets for stiffness. The German magazine "Road" did a comparison test on several maker's crank/bb systems and the Campys were second in the rankings and very close to Dura Ace/Ultegra. At some point the differences are strictly academic and this seems to be the case here.

It's getting harder to tell the top two or three groups from either maker apart. Campy in particular seems to have upgraded Chorus to the point where they are having problems coming up with things that justify Record's higher price. Other than the use (misuse?) of more carbon bits, there isn't much difference.

The "Slowtwitch" web site (aimed mostly at triathletes) states that '"In the past Chorus was the poor man's Record. Now Record is the pretentious man's Chorus."

barba

Agreed, but you forgot Tiagra. I would put as the equivalent of Mirage.

fmw

Having spent 50 years with Campy components and 3 years with Shimano, I'll tell you I broke 6 Shimano components in that three years and I've never broken a Campy component ever. I don't allow Shimano on my road bikes any longer. So you know I'm biased and you know why. If we take the component groups by weight and fit and finish we end up with this ranking in my opinion.

Record
Chorus
Dura Ace
Centaur
Veloce
Ultegra
105
Mirage
Tiagra
Xenon
Sora

I would actually put all the Shimano after all the Campy so I used weight and finish as the determining factors. The important issues, though, are features and function. Campy groups provide for multicog shifting while Shimano only shifts one cog at a time. Campy works a whole lot better with winter gloves. Campy groups are serviceable while Shimano are only replaceable. I have very good reasons to think that Campy is better in every respect. The problem, of course, is that Shimano is cheaper for the bike manufacturers and has almost completely taken all the market share in the U.S. It reminds me a little of the VCR days. Sony had a better system but Panasonic won the marketing war with VHS.

I'm not a purist or a brand concious person. I just use what works best for me. Take care.

Falkon 

oh why god did I click this thread?!

EGreen

Ouch, that hurts

HillRider

Not right. Shimano allows 4 cog downshifts with one sweep of the lever. Campy will allow multiple upshifts in one sweep but this is very minor advantage and Campy is discontinuing it on all of the 2007 groups except Record.

Why? The inner levers on Campy brifters are no more accessable than the ones on Shimano's and the sweep of the main lever on Shimano is actually easier than finding the mouse ear on Campy's.

Their brifters are servicable and that is a big advantage. Their other components aren't any more servicable than Shimanos. In the far distant past you could rebuild Campy derailleurs and hubs (at a very high parts cost) but that isn't true anymore. Campy's current bottom brackets are a use-it-until-failure-and-toss just like Shimano's.

Sure. I own and ride both but I don't see Campy as having any particular advantage except rebuildable brifters.

Sony lost the video tape wars because, despite a better system, they refused to license the technology. Campy lost the component wars because they stagnated and let both Sun Tour and Shimano develop all of the new technology and then had to play catch-up or wait for other company's patents to expire.

Wogster

Actually it wasn't Panasonic it was JVC who invented VHS, Shimano is probably cheaper because they make a lot of stuff in China where they really don't care about quality, they want the hard currency.

I could go on a political rant here, but I will resist. I got a new bike jersey to try out

fmw

Sorry I brought it up.

HillRider

I knew you would be. This is a perennial subject for debate and mis-information on both sides. It is fun though.

Wogster

Actually the whole thread is useful for some of us, such as myself, I was away from cycling for over 20 years, and what compares to what is quite helpful. The next question is how does SRAMs stuff compare to the other two?

HillRider

Sram has two brand new road groups, the higher line priced in the Dura Ace/ Record range and the lower one in the Ultegra/Centaur bracket. Other than that, there have been only magazine tests and the components aren't available to the consumer yet so there is no first hand info. Early reports are good but no longevity or durability tests I know of.

SteveE

Let's just say they're not equivalent - they're different.

TO11MTM

Good way of putting it. Each group seems to have their advantages and disadvantages... Personally I'm pondering trying some campy Brifters with shimano derailleurs, to ease me into the campy world.

froze

hahaahahhahahahahahaahhahahaha, this is great!!!! Well here's my 2 cents...ok maybe 1 cent!

Dura Ace is about evenly matched with Chorus; Record is on a whole different level. But the biggest reason I like Campy over Shamano is because Campy has small parts replacement list that enables you to fix a Campy whereas with Shamano you will be buying a whole new part. Go to your LBS if you don't believe me and ask to see the small parts list for both. It might be a bit more expensive to buy Campy intially but when it needs repair it will be cheaper over the long haul. However some people argue that by the time a part needs to be fixed it's obsolete so why would you want to fix it? Just depends on how fanatical you are over making sure you get the latest greatest newest thing on the market and how deep your pockets are!!!

caloso

I've got thousands of miles on Shimano and less than 10 on Campy (just finished building it up last night). And in my expert opinion, Centaur > Ultegra.

HillRider

Also ask to see the price list for Campy small parts. Repairing their components, other than brifters, is so costly that replacing them often makes more sense.

I also wonder if Campy even has a small parts list for their current derailleurs, hubs etc. They had extensive repair parts in the past when they made very few lines of components but I'm not sure they even support them that way anymore. You may be living in the distant past.

swifty

Funny how people always bring up the rebuildability of campy components up as a big advantage. While in theory it is, how many of you have actually rebuilt a brifter? Most of us do not even keep their bikes long enough to wear such a component out. As for me, I like Shimano better because of their better ergonomics and smoother shifting. For me the pecking order would be:

Dura Ace

Record
Chorus - Ultegra
105
Centaur
Veloce
Tiagra - Mirage

In terms of build quality there is nothing that sets either brand apart. Although many like the carbon on Campy, it does not offer and technological advantage. On the contrary, Campy's Carbon cranks are less stiff than Shimano's alloy ones. Basically it comes down to what suits your preferences best shifting wise, and what more ergonomic; the small Campy brifters or the larger Shimano ones.

just my opinion of course.

HillRider

Yeah, that myth dies hard

Actually that's the one Campy component that people actually rebuild. The parts and instructions are available from several sources and a couple of places (Branford Bike for one) offer parts and a rebuild service. Campy brifters can also be upgraded from 9 to 10-speed or the reverse and that is sometimes done. None of this is cheap but it's quite a bit less than complete replacement.