Triple to Double (again) thoughts please!
 

Hi all, here's the deal. My main bike is a triple Ultegra/DA (a comfy touring type), love it. Will continue to ride this for my main bike.

However, I have a decent AL. racing frame sitting around that has Tiagra triple stuff on it. It rides ok, but always has little issues with the components. Nothing major and hey, it got me back into riding! I still use it as my indoor bike. I'm thinking about upgrading this and making a budget racer type or fast club bike that I would ride outside on occasion when I feel like hammering. I have some decent wheels and a couple casettes to mix and match, looking to go from a Tiagra triple to 105 or Ultegra compact double. Will probably do this in stages, so I need some advice and opinions on the process.

Here's what I'm thinking:

1. Compact double and BB first. Ritchey or used FSA, and FD. Probably also do the RD at the same time. I'd like to keep it 9 speed so i can swap parts with my main ride.

2. Eventually the Brifters. Have Tiagra triples, would they work ok with the above setup temporarily? Until I can find a deal on some doubles?

3. Brakes. Not a huge expense, but would it be a noticeable upgrade at all?

I know this won't turn me into Floyd (is it time to stop saying Lance?). But it isn't that expensive, and until I save up for my custom Strong frame :), this is all I can tinker with. I'm mostly a touring type rider and have no illusions of being a Cat 1, but a second bike is good and if it makes me kick it up a notch on occasion, is that wrong?

A triple to a compact double? There is no point beyond scoring style points at the local club rides. I know that this is said every single time that this comes up, but you should really reconsider making what is effectively a downgrade to your bike. It's an expensive change for no material benefit. If you want to upgrade to a nicer triple crank, that's great and sensible, although not really necessary. I would deal with your component issues on a case-by-case basis, and not bother with downgrading to a compact double. But if you MUST:

1. Yes, this would be the first step.

2. Don't bother. Your triple brifters will work fine, new ones are a big waste of money. Shimano brifters are very expensive, worse than Campy at equivalent group pricing points.

3. Definitely a waste of time and money. Upgrading your calipers will boost your "bling" but not your performance.

Save the money (which is a non-trivial amount) and put it toward that custom frame. A full-size triple is perfectly capable of letting you "kick it up a notch" if you so desire. If you want to feel faster, a tighter cassette (say, 11-23 or even 11-21) is a cheaper means to the same end.

EDIT: Regarding "kicking it up a notch," a full-sized triple will give you HIGHER top-end gears than a compact double. What you want to do is not only pointless, it is actually counter-productive to your stated goals.

Triple front shifters work just fine with double front shifters. No reason at all to buy a whole new pair of brifters.

And as grolby said, you won't be able to "kick it up a notch" with the compact double. A compact double gives you typically a 50/34 front ring setup, whereas a standard triple is usually something like 52/42/30. You'll find yourself going slower when you want to bomb down that hill, and you'll find it a little harder when you're comin back up that same hill. So yes, it's really a downgrade, and the only upgrade might be in the 'image' department.

Yes, it's true, compact double fans will purport that a double ring setup gives you sliiiiightly nicer shifting (those people have never ridden a properly tuned triple ring setup), a sliightly straighter chainline, blah blah. I mean, it's true. But no way is it worth losing speed off your top and bottom end (as well as a lot of cash). Stay with the triple, and be proud. Nothing wrong with it.

If you are interested in getting into organized racing I think your plan makes sense. The compact double will take significant weight off the bike. A 50/36 crankset would shift better and be preferable for racing.
If you have a limited budget then there are probably better places to spend your money, but that's your business not ours.

Al

I would not bother, but all you really need is the crank and BB if you insist. The rest can be dealt with by careful use of the limit screws.

If you are racing (or in race-esque rides), there is some merit in the simplified shifts offered by a double vs. a triple. The weight difference seems less convincing to me unless you are already as light as you are going to get. That small ring, a half inch of extra derailleur cage and three more chain links can't weigh much.

A 50-11 is a larger gear than a 53-12 so a compact double will give you plenty of oomph if you don't mind tinkering with the rear cassette.

Personally, I have a Shimano R700 50/34 compact double on my Merlin with a 10sp 12-27 cassette and love it. I have an Ultegra 6600 triple with 10sp 12-27 on the Sequoia and much prefer the compact double. I do a lot less shifting with the compact since each ring let's me comfortably use 8 of the cogs. In hilly country, I stay on the small chainring and on the flats or long descents, its the large ring.

+1. I run a 50-36 with a 12-23 in the back, and I love how nimble it is compared to my other bike with a triple chainring. When you ride varied terrain or in race conditions, it feels much easier to always be in the optimal gear without having to shift the front so much.

don't want to get to far off topic, but do you get similar performance from a normal double vs a compact double? what are the benefits of a compact other than weight?

A normal double of 52-42, for instance, requires a greater difference between each cog in the rear cluster, because you need a significantly larger cog for your low gear. My 36 tooth small ring needs only a 23-tooth cog to give me the same low gear as my husband has on his 42 tooth small ring and 26-tooth cog. So given that you need a larger cog for your low gear, you're going to have bigger steps down the cluster as you shift to higher gears. The percentage difference between a 52 and a 42 ring is much less than a 50-36, so although you can get all the same gear-inch equivalents in some combination or other, they aren't all in a row when you're on one ring, and you have to shift the front more. I don't know if I'm making any sense here. I know what I mean, but it's hard to explain. You can explore and compare all the possibilities on Sheldon Brown's miraculously wonderful gear calculator, which you'll find here: http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

"Significant weight"? Totally not true. Don't know how that came up. You'd save as much weight from a compact double over a triple as you would by throwing half a Clif bar over your shoulder, at the very most.

If you're using the front two rings anyway, a properly tuned triple shifts- tooth for tooth- just as well as a double. It's an image thing.

Thanks for the replies.

I guess I should have been a little more specific. I've already made the decision of the triple vs. compact. Didn't mean to start that argument again. And for the record, if this was my only bike I'd easily leave it a triple, but again it's just a backup when I want something different. It'll probably be faster not because of the gears, but because the geometry and setup (tires, position, etc) is geared more for speed than my main ride which is a touring bike. Slight difference at that I'll grant you.

A better way to put it, I am going to upgrade this bike with some nicer components and make it a double. I think I'd be better off with a compact for the reasons others have posted above. There is a chance I'll get into organized racing, and I'm a few years from going all out on a new bike, so this will give me a chance to see if a compact will cut the mustard. There are enough hills around here to justify the compact, and I have several different cassettes anyway to mix and match and find the best gear ranges. I really could care less about the Bling, if you knew me you'd believe it, I just want to have a decent functioning bike. Huge difference between the Tiagra and DA/Ultegra in my opinion. I ride around 6-7k a year and can afford and justify the expense.

What I was really looking for were comments on the parts swap and my approach. I've heard different things about getting a compact F. Der., and didn't know how well one would work with Tiagra triple levers. Sounds like it shouldn't be too much of an issue, at least until I can find a good deal on a set. Also, it has a Tiagra triple crank and BB, and there has always been too much flex. Depending on the crank I choose, I'm guessing I really need to swap out the BB also to have better performance?

Thanks again for all your replies.

Steve

Well let's see... a Tiagra triple crankset weighs 950 gr plus 262 gr for the bottom bracket. An FSA compact including the bottom bracket is 776 gr, 950 + 262 - 776 = a reduction of 436 gr. Replacing the triple derailleurs with double derailleurs and with a smaller cassette the weight reduction will be well over a pound. That is definitely significant to a crit racer. And I don't know where you buy your Clif bars but they're a lot heavier than the ones I've picked up.

And a 53-11 is a larger gear than 50-11. Changing the cassette is MUCH cheaper than changing a crankset AND cassette.

If your triple isn't shifting as well as a double, compact or full-sized, it's adjusted wrong.