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Dura Ace 7700 for a triple?

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Dura Ace 7700 for a triple?

Old 10-16-06, 01:01 PM
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superslomo
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Dura Ace 7700 for a triple?

Does the Dura Ace 7700 9 speed STI shifter work for both double and triple chainrings? I need to replace my shifters, and I have a triple on the bike at the moment...
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Old 10-16-06, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by superslomo
Does the Dura Ace 7700 9 speed STI shifter work for both double and triple chainrings? I need to replace my shifters, and I have a triple on the bike at the moment...
No Dura-Ace is double or triple specific.
9-speed Ultegra goes either way.

Al
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Old 10-16-06, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by superslomo
Does the Dura Ace 7700 9 speed STI shifter work for both double and triple chainrings? I need to replace my shifters, and I have a triple on the bike at the moment...
Not enough info. You have a triple what on the bike? Crank, and both derailleurs, please.
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Old 10-17-06, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DMF
Not enough info. You have a triple what on the bike? Crank, and both derailleurs, please.
I don't see how the crankset or derailleurs could make any difference. The OP asked a simple question and the answer is no. D-A double shifters have no detents for a triple.
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Old 10-17-06, 03:00 PM
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Shimano compatibility chart shows ST-7700 to be compatible with Ultegra, 105, and Tiagra triple FDs. It shows ST-7703 is required for FD-7703. One presumes that "compatible" means it will shift to all three rings.

So yes, it does matter what else he's got.
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Old 10-17-06, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DMF
Shimano compatibility chart shows ST-7700 to be compatible with Ultegra, 105, and Tiagra triple FDs. It shows ST-7703 is required for FD-7703. One presumes that "compatible" means it will shift to all three rings.

So yes, it does matter what else he's got.
No, I'm sorry but the chart does NOT show the ST 7700 (double derailer) to be compatible with the other groups triple front derailleurs. It is compatible with other groups double derailleurs, not triples.
The D-A double derailleurs do not have detents for middle rings.
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Old 10-17-06, 04:35 PM
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It does indeed. The 7703 is not alone in its own box, as it would be if the 7703 alone operated with the DA triple setup. See for example the 6603 setup in the currently posted chart (which is not the latest, btw). 7703 is in the larger box containing the other STIs from 7700 down to 3300. The large ST box is connected to the large FD box (containing all 9-speed FDs), meaning that all components within the two boxes will interoperate.

I interpret the inner boxes associating the triple STIs with the triple FDs (etc) as meaning that those are the preferred combinations, not the only ones that work. For instance, the ST-6510 is in an inner box associated with the non-DA triples, but the ST-6510 clearly works with the FD-6500, in the big box.

Your point about detents is a good one, though. Maybe they mean that the "double" STIs will shift the triple FDs, but in something like friction mode. Might take multiple or partial pulls in some cases.
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Last edited by DMF; 10-17-06 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 10-17-06, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DMF
It does indeed. The 7703 is not alone in its own box, as it would be if the 7703 alone operated with the DA triple setup. See for example the 6603 setup in the currently posted chart (
But we're NOT talking about the ST 7703. The OP is asking about the ST 7700 which is the D-A double shifter. The chart does NOT show it to be compatible with any triples. And there is no "friction mode". You're arguing in circles.
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Old 10-17-06, 05:19 PM
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No, you're simply asserting a fact without supporting it.

I explained how I read the chart. You have not explained how I'm wrong, only that I'm wrong.

I will point again to the case of the ST-6510 (in the little box) and the FD-6500 (in the big box). Those two *are* compatible; the shifter is bundled by Shimano with both single and double kits. Compatibility thus crosses inner box boundaries. Do you not agree?

And if it crosses inner box boundaries, then all parts in the two large boxes (ST and FD) interoperate (to one degree or another). Do you not agree? If not why not?
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Old 10-17-06, 05:32 PM
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DMF, I looked at the chart & confirmed what I already knew 7700 is double only. 7703 is triple. I don't know how we could be reading this diferently but that seems to be the case. As Al1943 said simple question simple answer.

DA 9s was not originally made in a triple hence the new model number on the shifter.
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Old 10-17-06, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DMF
No, you're simply asserting a fact without supporting it.

I explained how I read the chart. You have not explained how I'm wrong, only that I'm wrong.

I will point again to the case of the ST-6510 (in the little box) and the FD-6500 (in the big box). Those two *are* compatible; the shifter is bundled by Shimano with both single and double kits. Compatibility thus crosses inner box boundaries. Do you not agree?

And if it crosses inner box boundaries, then all parts in the two large boxes (ST and FD) interoperate (to one degree or another). Do you not agree? If not why not?
The lines show the compatibility, the blue line is an example of this. The size of the box is irrelevant.
For the past 8 years I've ridden a bike with ST 7700 shifters. They cannot shift a triple. Give it up.
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Old 10-17-06, 05:48 PM
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Strange that Shimano docs would suggest more compatibility than there actually is, but I suspect this is just a case of poor graphic design. It is simple. The 7700 will shift doubles only. It doesn't matter whether you've got a derailleur that's designated for a triple or a double, because the derailleur doesn't care. In that sense, the 7700 and the "triple" derailleur are "compatible".

But it's the shifter that dictates the number of positions the derailleur will land in, and the 7700 only has 2 positions. It can move a "triple derailleur", but it's only going to put it into one of 2 positions. If you want to shift into all 3 positions of a triple crankset (of any kind), you will need a 7703, look at the blue line in the chart ("the blue line indicates Dura-Ace triple compatibility") (even though there is actually more compatibility than the blue line suggests).

If you need further convincing, I guess the only thing remaining to do is pick up a 7700 left shifter and try for yourself to shift a triple with it. You can send it to me when you're done

Last edited by 'nother; 10-17-06 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 10-17-06, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 'nother
Strange that Shimano docs would suggest more compatibility than there actually is, but I suspect this is just a case of poor graphic design. It is simple. The 7700 will shift doubles only. It doesn't matter whether you've got a derailleur that's designated for a triple or a double, because the derailleur doesn't care. In that sense, the 7700 and the "triple" derailleur are "compatible".
Let's not start another argument but there are significant differences in Shimano triple derailleurs. The D-A triple derailleurs are designed to work with 39 tooth middle rings, and so are the Ultegra 10-speed triple derailleurs. Based on forum postings it seems that the D-A triple deraileurs don't work very well with a standard 52-42-30 crankset and the Ultegra 10-speed triple derailleurs don't work well with 9-speed triples. The 9-speed triple derailleurs other than D-A seem to be more tolerant and will work fine with a variety of triple configurations. I do not have first hand knowledge of all of these issues, I'm only passing on what I've read in various forum postings, YMMV. My wife runs a 9-speed Ultegra triple and I try to keep up with compatibility possibilities. Her chainrings are TA Alize 49-39-28.
Cheers,

Al

Last edited by Al1943; 10-18-06 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 10-18-06, 10:14 AM
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Okay, I think I've figured it out, and Al is right. (Actually, I didn't think he was wrong so much as I wanted to reconcile his position with the bleedin' Shimano diagrams.) I accept that the ST-7700s don't work with triple FD/CS (at least as a triple). So how do we interpret the charts so as to capture that fact?

Al, I wasn't referring to the size of the box, but whether one box is contained within another. Thus saying "the small box" is the same as saying "the embedded box". In the 9-speed groups there are two embedded boxes, both enclosing "triple" STIs. Thus there are at least two implied compatibilities for each triple STI: one through the connection of the embedded box, and the other through the connection of the enclosing box.

Apparently, Shimano means the embedded boxes to indicate "triple" compatibility. While a ST-7700 will shift a FD-7703, it won't shift it as a triple. Likewise a ST-6510 will shift a FD-6500, but not as a triple (which makes sense since it only supports a double crankset).

You're right, 'nother, this is extremely poor graphic design. (For another example on the same diagram, notice the enclosing boxes for the 10-speed doubles up at the top. They aren't connected to anything, so why have them at all?)

At any rate, thanks for helping me figure out how to read these charts. It's a question I've been asking for several months without an answer.
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Old 10-18-06, 10:16 AM
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However,

However, the answer to the OP is still, "The shifter you need to buy depends on what FD/CS/RD combo you have."

Currently using a ST-7700 does not imply anything about what else he has on the bike. If he has triple Ultegra, then the correct shifter is not ST-7703.
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Old 10-18-06, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DMF
However, the answer to the OP is still, "The shifter you need to buy depends on what FD/CS/RD combo you have."

Currently using a ST-7700 does not imply anything about what else he has on the bike. If he has triple Ultegra, then the correct shifter is not ST-7703.
Well, the question was, "Does the Dura Ace 7700 9 speed STI shifter work for both double and triple chainrings?", and the answer to that is (still) "no". And actually, if he currently has "triple" on the bike currently, as he states, the 7703 shifter will work fine with a triple crankset, whether Ultegra, 105, or even something else. I can't confirm or refute what Al1943 is saying re: the derailleur; it's possible that's an issue but I would have to guess it's more due to adjustment issues than anything inherently wrong with that combination. Even if there is something wrong with a D-A derailleur on an Ultegra crankset, that is an issue with the derailleur, and has nothing to do with the shifter that's attached to it -- because the shifters both pull the same amount of cable.
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Old 07-09-12, 02:18 PM
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Thanks!!

this was a great thread saved me the time of trying to hook up a pair of 7700 shifter to a 105 3 ring crank set. good stuff guys thanks.
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Old 07-09-12, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ragnorrox View Post
this was a great thread saved me the time of trying to hook up a pair of 7700 shifter to a 105 3 ring crank set. good stuff guys thanks.
Glad we could help. The 9-speed 6500 Ultegra will shift a triple.
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