Monoborracho

I've been debating a new tourer like an Atlantis or Co-Motion, or a build up of an Surely LHT to replace my old Schwinn Transit.

One thing I noticed is that Co-Motion advertises an 145mm rear dropout (tandem sized) which allows them to build a rear wheel with a mimum of dish in the spokes. This seems to make a lot of sense for a dedicated touring bike with a load on the back and my extra lard on top. Every spoke I've ever broken has been on the cog side of the rear wheel.

What about the LHT? Would you have to cold-work the rear triangle to get 145 mm back there?

Riv-Lantis

You should be able to cold set a LHT frame for 145mm rear dropout spacing. That's only 5mm per side on a long chainstay bike.

Sheldon Brown has a good article on his site about how to cold set a rear triangle to accept a larger hub spacing. Usually, it's done to upgrage an old bike to new (wider) hubs with more gears, but I don't see why you can't do it for your purposes.

Link to Sheldon' article.

TallRider

I think rear spacing of 135mm is plenty strong for a loaded-touring bike, especially if you use a rear rim with off-center drilling that also helps to minimize dish. You can go 40 or 48 spokes if you really want more strength.
One of the problems with 145mm rear spacing is that it messes with your chainline - you would also need to get a bottom bracket that's 10mm wider (15mm if it's for a crank designed for 130mm road-bike rear spacing) and puts your pedals significantly further apart.

Monoborracho

Which hub/rim combinations have 40 or more holes with 130 or 135 mm dropouts?

Michel Gagnon

Hubs:

I think Shimano still has one, but I'm not sure.
Phil Wood and Chris King are available almost any width you want.
DTHugi also makes one.

However, Unless you weigh 300 lb and carry bricks in your panniers, you don't need to go beyond 36 spokes. A well built 36 spoke wheel is most likely stronger than a poorly built 48-spoke wheel, and for the price of a 40 or 48 spoke wheel at your LBS, you could call Peter White Cycles or Sheldon Brown and get a hand built 36-spoke wheel that will be stronger than a 48-spoke wheel built by somebody who doesn't know what he or she does (i.e. most bike shops).

Rims:

Mavic A719 have been the best for me. Many others like the Velocity Dyads, but I had a poor experience with them. Both come in 36, 40 and 48.

Retro Grouch 

If you know as much about wheelbuilding as you claim, how did you acquire the experience to comment about the ability of the wheelbuilders in "most bike shops" world wide? I'd think that you'd be building your all of your own wheels and and wouldn't have much business with other wheelbuilders.

HillRider

There is another thread on this today. One problem with wide dropout spacing is that your heels will hit the chainstays unless they are very long.

onbike 1939

Why try for 145mm? Why not go for an off-set rear triangle which will do away with the need for a dished wheel altogether.

TallRider

Because, as HillRider noted in the other thread that he referenced in the post above yours, your heels will hit the drive-side dropouts. Unless you widen the crank spacing for proper chainline, in which case you've got a significantly wider Q-factor.

pmseattle

I have a Co-Motion Americano with 145mm dropout spacing, and my heels don't hit the chainstays.

onbike 1939

If that is the case (and I wouldn't know) why are bikes now being produced with this feature?

Michel Gagnon

There are a few good reasons to build a bike with 145-mm dropout spacing:

- Extra wheel strength : the rear wheel is totally symmetrical.

- Possibility to install a drum brake on the axle.

- Greater frame rigidity, especially when loaded, because the stays are further apart. (I was able to experience the difference first hand when I respaced an old steel frame from 126 to 135 mm).


The negatives are mainly related to the fact parts are much less common and much more expensive, so I don't think it's worthed for single-bike loaded touring.

As for heels hitting the seatstays, I don't think it's an issue if you keep your feet relatively straight, but if you pedal with heels inboard, it could become one. I find I have more issues on a mountain bike with fatty stays and a very long axle than when stoking a tandem that has 145-mm spacing.

HillRider

One more time. If the chainstays are long, the heel clearance is not a problem. Tandems and touring bikes almost always have long chainstays so they can use wider dropout spacing without rider interference.