use wider handlebars for bike with bar-end shifters?
 

For the past year, I rode my Raleigh with bar-end shifters mounted on a 46cm-wide handlebar. I recently finished building up a repainted Centurion Comp TA and it now has the bar-ends, mounted on a 44cm-wide handlebar.

I find that when standing to climb or sprint on the Centurion, I have to be somewhat careful to keep my knees from hitting or at least brushing against the bar-end shifters. This is partly due to having a narrower handlebar compared to the Raleigh, but it's also due in part to having the bars about 2" higher and also slightly closer to the saddle. With higher handlebars I'm sitting up straighter, and standing up straighter when riding out of the saddle, and thus my legs are further forward than they'd be if I were standing but bending over more to grab lower handlebars.

Anyway, I'm wondering if people have had issues with bumping their knees on bar-end shifters when using narrower handlebars. It's not a real problem on my Centurion with the 44cm-wide handlebar, but I just need to be careful to not let my legs splay out when pedaling out of the saddle.
I'm thinking about this in part because I'm building up a road bike using a gigantic 68cm Schwinn frame with 63cm top tube (was a fixed-gear bike for a little while) and I'm planning to use 42cm-wide deep-drop handlebar that was on my Centurion before I rebuilt it. I'm wondering if I should instead use a 45cm-wide Nitto B115 handlebar - 3cm wider with shallower drops. Wider so I'd be less likely to hit my knees on the bar-end shifters, shallower so the bar-end shifters are easier to reach down from the hoods or the tops.

I use 46 cm. I still hit them with my knees if I'm not careful. But adding width probably helps, so go for 46!

I'd suggest flared drops. That way the bar-end shifters are not pointed straight back. You can keep going wider and wider but the problem is that the shifter levers are pointed straight back. A flared drop points them AWAY from you. I think that's the ticket.

I WAS going to suggest that you check out On-One's Midge handlebar. They're very "retro" looking but actually very ergonomic. Nice flared drops that would keep bar-ends out of your knee's way. Beats a "conventional" drop-bar hands down-- especially the so-called "ergo" bends. Pfft. The folks at On-One got it SO right with the design of the Midge.

ANYWAY... sounds like the Nitto bar has flared drops-- that'll work too. Just wish they'd indicate how much of a flare.

One suggestion I read about a while back is to cut the end of the handlebar just enough for your knee to clear. I don't know how that would effect your hand positions.

I was about to make the same suggestion. If you cut about 1" or 1-1/2" from each bar end, it will position the barcons further away from your knees and should reduce the interference.

I ride a 60cm bike (which means I'm pretty big) and have 42cm bars. And I have bar end shifters. I'd suggest that if your legs are hitting the bar ends at any point while riding the bike, there are other bike fit issues at play. My legs have never hit the barcons when riding the bike.

Might you suggest what these other bike fit issues might be? I described some of the variables in my initial post.

I have Salsa Moto Ace Bell-Lap 44's and bar-ends on my 58cm CrossCheck. The bars are flared and shallow. I have kneed the right shifter only a couple of times when standing and working pretty hard uphill. I have heard from other riders it is alot more common with non flared bars.

Fyi, I used the 45cm-wide, slightly-flared Nitto B115 drop bars in building up the Schwinn Traveler that I mentioned in the OP. Here's the thread the thread where I describe the build. And here's what the bars look like (click on pictures for larger version):

http://www.unc.edu/~cupery/pics/bike...-side_view.jpg
http://www.unc.edu/~cupery/pics/bike...--bars_top.jpg

Are they wide enough and/or flared enough that the shifters don't interfere with your knees, which was the original concern?

And, you gotta find less garish bar tape! I assume that stuff was on the "Anything on this table: $1" display. :)

Yeah, the 45cm bars are plenty wide. When I've ridden with 46cm, I never worried about hitting my knees. 44cm on my Comp TA, I sometimes come close but haven't really had a problem. 45cm with very slight flare is perfectly fine.

Honestly, I liked the Garish tape. It's a very saturated color, and matched up well with the blue of the bike's frame (like Carolina blue but more saturated and a bit darker).

+1

I have two 60 cm bikes with barcons. One has 43cm bars the other has somewhat narrower bars. I've never come close to hitting my knees.

I have my bars tipped up a bit more than yours, Tim. The drops are maybe 20 or 30 degrees instead of horizontal. That moves the barcons away from my knees -- but not because of a problem, that's just how I like to have the bars. Top tube length, crank length, shoe size, stem reach, bar reach... there are a lot of variables here. Too bad we all can't line our bikes up and check out the differences.

All that said, if you like the way everything else is, consider getting a tubing cutter and taking an inch or two off the ends or the bars.

If you look at a side-on view of any Rivendell bike in an advertisement, you'll observe the position of the bars. The B115 has a shallow 5" drop and a minimal drop angle relative to the ramps, making them almost parallel. Note that the ramps are level with the top tube, not rotated downward, which moves the barcons towards you. The drop grips will be pointed at the top of the rear tire/rim, rarely lower.

The flare on the B115 (and Noodle) is a vertical flare. The Midge has both vertical and horizontal flare, and plenty of it. The Midge will get things well out of your way, but you may find that you have to have them too high for your taste, judging from the pics of your bikes. This is because they have very short drop grips, and are designed to be mounted up high.

Your bikes are classic old school, close-coupled and responsive. And, obviously, you are taller than the average rider. I'm not a Rivendell customer, but I agree with Peterson's idea of bike fit. It seems that his idea would be a real benefit to those riders who are as tall as you. You're just going to have to spread things out on those tight old frames.

FWIW, My Atala has 38cm drops and barcons and I've never hit them with my knees. Granted, I'm a lot shorter than the OP at 5'8", the frame is 56cm, and the stem is cranked 'way up.
Top

On the fit-question posts:
I'm 6'5" with relatively long legs for my height (especially femers are relatively long). Both of my recent "good" road bikes have had 59cm top tubes and 130mm-forward-extension stems. On the Raleigh, I didn't have a problem with knees bumping bar-ends because the bar was 46cm wide and/or because the bars were pretty low (and subsequently further forward) with respect to the saddle. The repainted Centurion also has a 59cm top tube, but the bars are significantly higher (2" below the saddle, instead of 4") and I sometimes come close to bumping my knees when standing out of the saddle. The Schwinn Traveler has a 63cm top tube and 90cm stem, with 45cm-wide bars that have a shallower drop, and not much issue of knees hitting bar-end shifters.

On most of my bikes I have the bars set with drops 10-15 degrees from horizontal. Understand that 20-30 degree rotation puts the ends of the drops further from my knees, but I've got mine set pretty much normally.

jcm: I'm not sure how my bikes could be set up more like Rivendell's, unless I had a larger frame (longer top tube, higher top of steerer tube) along with a Technomic stem. As it is, I've got a huge frame (the Traveler) without Technomic, and a more normal-big frame (the 63cm Centurion) with a Technomic stem.
I'm not sure what you mean by "tight" old frames, close coupled and responsive. Do you mean that the seat angle is steeper? I've usually got my saddle relatively far back on my bikes, so this shouldn't be so relevant. What do you mean by "spread things out" on these old bikes?

Here's pictures of the bikes, in order of their mention. Pictures are linked to larger images:

http://www.unc.edu/~cupery/pics/bike..._bike_side.jpg
http://www.unc.edu/~cupery/pics/bike...-side_view.jpg
http://www.unc.edu/~cupery/pics/bike...-shadyside.jpg

Sounds to me like it is a matter of the bars being closer more than anythiing else. I am not having a problem with mine on 44 bars.

Yes, I see what you mean, with the bikes in comparison pics. What I mean't by "close coupled" is that the top tubes seem to be rather short for the height of the bikes. I remember a couple of bikes I used to ride way back when, and they had fairly short TT's and were pretty straight up and down. The only current roadie I now own is a Sequoia Elite size XXL. It correlates to a 24" seat tube in a vintage bike with a 24.7" tt. With yours, I'm not sure if it's an optical illusion or maybe a design of vintage road bikes. Still, I think you are doing what you can to lenghten the fit (spread things out).

Long femurs can present some problems when the tt is only about 23"-24". What about an increased setback type seatpost? Would this open up the distance without presenting a Knee Over Pedal problem? You may just have to veer away a bit from the pure and beautiful classic details and compromise, because these aren't bikes that were built exclusively for you.

The top tubes are actually relatively long: 59cm on the Raleigh (not vintage), 59cm on the Centurion (from 1984), and a whopping 63cm on the Schwinn (from 1980). I'm using 130mm stems on the Raleigh and Centurion and 90mm on the Schwinn.

These are normal-to-long top tube lengths for large road frames. My guess is that the top tubes look shorter because large-framed bikes look weird to begin with, a sort of optical illusion but more because it's a comparison of a normal-looking bike (the 54-58cm bikes that are by far the most common, in the middle range of sizes) with 63cm and larger frames.

Seat setback is irrelevant here because knees coming close to bumping the bar-ends happens only when standing up. So the principle distance that matters is horizontal distance between the crank and the handlebars.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the ideal parameters of fit should be here. With the bars way low on the Raleigh (and subsequently at least 1cm further forward than on the Centurion) I don't hit my knees. With a Rivendell setup where the bars are high up but proportionally further ahead horizontally from the saddle, people don't have many problems. Maybe my Centurion is just in the middle and it doesn't work as well.

And again, I don't hit my knees on the bar-ends of the Centurion. They're 44cm wide. But I come closer than I'd like.

mmm... I don't know. I'm sure you're right about the optical illusion. Personally, I like the look of those tall bikes. You also may be right about the one being in the middle range for you. This is a tough one for tall riders with physical features that are somewhat out of the norm for their height (you mention longish femurs). Maybe you actually should try cutting off a half inch or so of the grips, like suggested earler. The B115's will give away that much and still be functional.

Tim: consider running bullhorns?

P.S Under no circumstances are you to chop anything off those nitto drops.

I won't be cutting either of the Nitto bars (Noodle on the Centurion, B115 on the Schwinn) mainly because they're both already wrapped with nice tape and barcon cable routing is already installed.
And, most importantly, because neither is really a problem.

I agree that the Nitto stuff is beautiful and not to be cut, although if I thought cutting them would make a major improvement, I would cut them.

Since it's not a problem on the Centurion - I just notice my knees close to the shifters when standing, but have never bumped them (it would be more a problem if I ran 42cm bars, and definitely if I ran 40cm), I have no reason to be running bullhorns. I like having the three hand positions, not just two, on a drop bar.