Frame Saver over existing rust?
 

I did a search and didn't come up with a specific answer. So, perhaps one of you can help. I've got an early 90's steel frame that I've inherited. The seat was stuck and took a considerable amount of work to get out. Once out, it was clear that there is some rust on the frame's insides... not a lot, but some. Upon questioning, my LBS says that Frame Saver is only good on new bikes. That it won't really work if there is already rust evident. Is this true? Are there other products I can use that can be successfully applied over the existing rust and that will stop any additional rust? The threads I've read in my search don't seem to really directly address this. As I read them, I get the sense that there is an assumption that Frame Saver is good over existing rust. What do you all know to be true? Appreciate any insights / knowledge you'd share.

Since rust is a corrosive process, once it's begun, the damage is already done. You can clean off the oxidized parts and treat them to prevent further damage, but their strength/durability is questionable, depending on how much rust there was.

There wasn't much, just surface coating, nothing structural. However, the LBS says that unless it's "virgin steel" or "naked steel" (both his terms), the Frame Saver is useless. I just don't know if I should believe that or not.

Do your best to remove the rust you can get to. I've never used Frame Saver, but I've found a product at an agricultural supply store that's intended to coat bare metal on tools, implements, etc. to prevent rust, it comes in a spray can and is inexpensive. I spray it inside a frame's tubes, using it to flush the tubes out to some extent as well as getting the insides of the tubing coated with a rust preventative. It's quick, easy, and cheap, and from what I've seen so far it works very well..........I know Frame Saver can be used on older steel frames, you see it referenced here as well as in the Classic and Vintage forum often for this. Just follow the directions on the bottle. Boiled linseed oil works, too. The basic idea is to put something in the tubes that will leave a residual, rust-preventing coating, it's not complicated-

It's a good question, and I'm not sure of the answer.

Rust is a corrosive process, but corrosion can be limited by depriving the environment of oxygen. And if frame saver forms a sufficient coating over the insides of the frame's tubing, then it will limit further spread of rust.

It's also important to make sure the inside of the frame is dry and has had chance to dry out before applying the frame saver.

I would argue that linseed oil is very much a second (or third) best solution; it doesn't spread out and stick as well and needs to be re-applied. It's better than nothing, but frame saver is a much better alternative.

There are some products that chemically react with existing rust to prevent further spread of rust. I've seen these in liquid (brush-on) form and in aerosol cans. Not sure either one works well for application into the inside of frame's tubing.

well biked, I'm interested in the product that you've been using. What's the name?

I am using Boeshield for the purpose which, in my experience, soaks through and works well even on rusted parts.

I once called Amsoil and asked this question about HDMP, which many, myself included, believe to be the same as FrameSaver. The lady at Amsoil asked a higher up who said that it should be just fine and ****** any further rust.

There's a couple products you can use to treat the rust first. Phosphoric acid is sold as a rust converter, you can check any product sold as a "rust away" sort of thing and if ti says phosphoric acid as the main ingredient then it's a converter. What it does is change the iron oxide to iron tannate, which apparently is stable so it basically kills the rusting process. Just scrub out all the rust you can and then try to get some acid on all the rusted spots, letting is stay in contact for a few minutes at least. The rust turns black and that's when it's been changed. Rinse it with water once you're done.

Then there's oxalic acid which basically just dissolves iron oxide. It's sold as wood bleach (powdered substance) and it works awesome for saoking rusted chrome parts in- they come out shiny and new looking. You could also soak a whole frame if you had a plastic garbage can to do it in. With that stuff use it as a concentration about 1/4 what is recommended for wood bleaching. It's a weak acid and I don't think it's necessary to rinse afterward, but it wouldn't hurt to do it.

After you've treated the rust and the frame is dry, then spray it with framesaver.

Or the more ghetto solution that might work well enough is just get some wd-40 and spray/scrub all the rust you can from the frame, then spray some more, basically rinsing the frame with wd-40, and once it's dry shoot some framesaver in there.

Putting oily stuff on top of rust will slow down the rusting proces a bit but not completely. Something
like spray can Permatex rust treatment will be a good bit better, but it doesn't work on top of oily stuff.
At least the seat tube is accessible. Ideal treatment would be a brass or steel cylindrical brush long enough to reach the bottom of the tube and a thorough mechanical derusting and rinse out followed by
some sort of passivation, phosphate variety, then a cleaning and drying followed by frame saver or the
Permatex stuff. Real question is what is going on inside the tubing you CAN'T see: chain and seat stays
and the top tube. You might be able to use mirrors and lights to eyeball these. If they are rusted also
it might be simplest just to spray some permatex on the reachable parts and wait for the frame to fail
in 3 to 20 years. The WD40 approach is another variant. The frame is likely not worth the trouble
unless namebrand hi zoot tubing. If it isn't just treat the area where the seat post goes and don't sweat
it.

The product I've used is called Kellogg's Rust Inhibitor. It's probably not as good as Frame Saver for the specific job of protecting the insides of frame tubing, mainly because it says it needs to be re-applied periodically, but I figured if it will protect tools sitting out in the open for an extended time it should protect the inside of frame tubes even longer. It leaves a very noticeable film inside the frame when it's dry-

Thanks for your replies. You've given me several useful options.

yup. thanks too! pretty helpful

Phosphoric acid is the way to go. In marine stores I believe the product is called Osphocote. I have a product used in car body applications for treating bare metal before paint that is pretty mild, can't remember the brand.

Rustoleum sells a rust converter in the spray can with spray tube that works for the vent holes of a frame tube. It reacts with rust and turns it black. The Ace Hardware in town carries it for about $5 a can.