Park vs Filzer
 

Hello,

I tried searching for anything under "Filzer" but came up short.

I'm just wondering if anyone could suggest (or direct me to a thread) on either buying the Filzer Tool Kit http://www.filzer.com/products.php?id=69 or the Park AK-37 Tool Kit http://www.parktool.com/products/det...6&item=AK%2D37

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Babber

A bit of googling and it looks to me like Filzer is a Canadian marketing company, making me suspect that the tools are rebranded Taiwanese or Chinese items. This doesn't mean that the tools are bad (and i noticed that Mountain Equipment Co-Op seems to sell them, and they usually don't sell junk), but Park Tools are sort of the benchmark of bicycle tools, and made in the US.

Cheap tools really suck, so for lack of more info on the Filzer product, i'd go for the Park, but if there is a big price difference, it's a question of what it's worth to you to try out the unknown brand and hope the quality is OK.

My experience with Filzer tools from MEC has been good (I've got BB lockring tool, crank puller-- which I really like, cassette remover, and some others). MEC is pretty selective in the brands they carry.

Most of my tools are Park but I do have a few Filzer tools. For home use the Filzer is fine. For a bike shop I'd stick with Park, just because they are used so much more than at home.

I'm confident you'll be ok with Filzer.

Thanks for the replies. The only reason I'm debating is the price. The Filzer toolkit is quite a bit cheaper than the Park ak-37 kit; however, I keep hearing that Park is the way to go. I do appreciate everyone's opinion. Thanks.

I'm wondering if the Filzer tools are the same as Nashbar or Sette tools, which IIRC are made in China by Lifu (and are generally OK quality).

Actually they are Taiwanese and, as noted, pretty good quality. I have a "Spin Doctor" (Performance's house brand) Campy bottom bracket/lockring tool and it actually has Lifu's name and part number engraved on it along with the Spin Doctor label.

Park is good, but I have yet to be seriously disappointed with any of the so-called "cheap tools". Well, except for a four-in-one cone wrench.

Btw, notice the similarity in the tools - especially the cone wrenches - in the two sets. It's not unusual for "cheapo" tools to be made in the same factory as "name brand" tools. Park doesn't own the factory; it owns the brand.

(Marketing lesson: Here you can see the value of a brand. If e.g. Park - a respected brand - can sell the same tools as BrandX for P % more money, then the 'Park Tools' brand can be valued at P % of sales. P is essentially pure profit, which is why companies love brand building.)

I'd buy the Filzer set, assuming it has the tools you need.

Lifu is good stuff. In some cases I prefer them to the Park equivalent.

Thanks everyone. I sure appreciate all the responses. So glad I joined this forum.

Got some info from Filzer that I thought everyone might like to know....

I asked what their tools were comprised of (i.e. stamped steel, forged steel, chromoly, etc.) They responded by saying this:

For the big tool box - the tools are steel (stamped wrenches) - but decent
quality. Of course the other tools are made from different types of steel
depending on the tool...

Our individual tool line - the wrenches are laser cut chromoly... they cost more
and are better quality.

We're coming out with a new tool box (basically the individual tools put in a tool
box) - which we are using laser cut chromoly wrenches - so better quality - but
you won't see this new tool box for about 4 months...and the cost will be
more... maybe a retail of $200.(CAD)

I'm not sure what Park tools are made from (I have an email into them too) but chromoly is pretty durable. I also appreciate the quick response I got from Filzer. Good customer service.

Heh.. well, i didn't specify R.O.C. or P.R.C. ;)

note from Filzer
 

Hello From Filzer
www.filzer.com

Just wanted to add a little to this discussion on bike tools.

Our goal is to provide high quality tools with great value. We strive to have the best quality/value bike tools on the market.

We think that we have a great line to tools...but hey check them out yourself...and note we have updated lots of our tools over the years - our first set of tools were good - but they are much better now!

Our cone wrenches (since they thin) and pedal wrenches (since they are usually abused) are made of K5 steel (50-55 hardness), 40% stronger than Cro-Moly (40-45 hardness). The original ones were made of CrMO and we updated the materials in 2009.

Our other wrenches are made of CrMO - which we feel is a good balance between strength/hardness and value.

We just came out with a new chain cleaner http://www.filzer.com/products.php?id=150 that is a big improvement over our previous model - more brushes, less spillage, less jamming for all around better cleaning of your chain.

Our tools are designed in-house (in Canada) and we have them manufactured in high quality factories in Taiwan.

Also we are now starting to sell goods on Amazon.com and you can find most of our items at MEC.

If you have specific question you can contact us via our website - we always reply (but if you type in your incorrect email address then we can't get back to you...).

Cheers.

Phil

designed in house huh? some tools look like straight up park tools

Agreed completely, but do you really think there is a guy at Park doing hard engineering analysis on things like allen wrenches and cone wrenches? Mind you I'm generally happy with Park tools. They aren't by any means the best out there (Old Campy tools, Shimano Cable Cutters, etc). What Park does do well is provide a bicycle almost-equivalent to Sears Craftsman. I watched a Craftsman open ended wrench begin to round off a nut once, and then saw a guy pull out a Snap on wrench which loosened and removed it. Better is available, but it does what most people need. Maybe Filzer is more of the Ace Hardware equivalent.

Looks pretty decent basic took kit, the only major omission is anything for HT2 BB's, which the Park has.

As the 2 tool kits are similar but would look at the spec of your bike, and choose the one which has most parts relevant to you, to minimise additional purchases / unused tools

Hello Jccaclimber,

When designing tools...one must think about materials and tolerances. And I am sure Park thinks about these things....we certainly do.

Not sure how you can compare Filzer tools to Ace hardware equivalent tools......
Have you even tried out our new Filzer tools?
If you did - we would like to hear feedback from you - and which tools you tested out.
You can check out our pedal wrench at http://www.amazon.com/Filzer-Pedal-W...623947&sr=1-61

Cheers.

Phil

I am not a fan of tool kits. I have bought my tools over the years on an as needed or on sale basis.
If I could have afforded it I would have bought the 3 grand in the mid '90's Campy kit in the wooden box!

off shore made tools should have an offshore price tag, atleast pedros designs most of their own stuff. never liked their tools either due to price and value

+10 Been discussed many times, but any of the kits are underwhelming. You end up with a lot of bicycle branded generic tools (do you really need a Parks screwdriver???), tools that most people already own. And then you end up with tools you don't need. Instead, start buying tools needed for your bike(s) only. Sometimes, the best tool is a Parks brand, sometimes another brand, and sometimes the tools just aren't that critical so any brand is OK.

Google tool kits, its been discussed many, many, times before..

Filzer only compares to the Park 'home mechanic' quality tools. I've bought their tools before I became a shop mechanic and the difference is obvious.

Cheap metal, loose tolerances, wears out quickly.

MEC only brought filzer on as a inferior substitute when Park refused to sell them any more tools for not honoring pricing agreements. **** MEC. Don't shop there.

Phil,
I'm sure that most tool companies look to tolerance stack up and material properties, but that wasn't what I meant. As an example see the wrench photo I attached (not my photo). It's an open end wrench, and the profile on the "flats" of the wrench do actually make a difference. That's what I mean by design. My engineering background is mostly aerospace and forensics, so little things that don't matter to most suddenly become important details in my world. It is a level of detail that doesn't generally exist in bike tools because 1) It isn't really needed and 2) The majority of people would not want to pay for it anyways. Actually, the Park TS-3 is a perfect example of this. In most applications, it is, without question, a better tool than the TS-2, but the demand isn't there, and thus it isn't made any more.
1) A guy who does his wheels once every 5 years can do it in the frame.
2) A guy who does his wheels more often uses a cheap truing stand.
3) Someone who trues their wheels regularly, and some shops use a TS-2
4) A shop that does a LOT of wheels probably has a TS-3 (in my limited observations).
5) A place that does high end production looks like this: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...-wheel-factory

It all depends on what you need/want. What bothers me is when someone making tools for groups 1-2 claims the tools are the same as the ones for groups 3-5.

I will admit that I do not own any of your tools, nor have I used them. In this case, it looks like Operator has, and I'm inclined to trust his judgment in this case. My tools are combination of (mostly) Park, VAR, Craftsman, and Shimano (Cable cutters and some crank/shifter specific ones). They've served me well for the most part. I have a couple other oddball tools, the stupid Campy left hand thread crank puller, Pedro's plastic tire levers, etc. Ones that flat out don't work, like the Jagwire cable cutters (foolish purchase) get replaced. As it would be, none of my friends own your tools, none of the shops here stock them, and I'm not inclined to purchase a replacement tool when other than my floor pump I'm happy with my current tools. If I ever do stumble across them, I'll be happy to give you a review, I'm never short on opinions.
Edit: Since you linked to it, I'll throw in the following observations:
1) While it's pretty clear that you work for Filzer, posting a link to an Amazon store for your own product (I presume without being a site sponsor) is questionable. While still questionable, perhaps a link to your site page rather than a sales page would be more appropriate:
http://www.filzer.com/products.php?id=129
2) It looks a bit short, although without a listed length I'm only speculating.
3) It also looks like it has a flat handle. Personally, I don't like having to put a rag around a wrench handle to save my hand with particularly stubborn pedals. A longer and/or rounded handle makes a big difference. As far as I know, the pedal wrench is one of the only wrenches (maybe the only) which Park takes the trouble of putting a wider handle on. There's a reason for this.
4) I don't know about the tolerance or fit as I don't have one in my hand. It looks like it would be fine for limited home use (so is a cheap 15mm and a rag), but it doesn't look like something I'd want to use all day.



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