hodadmike

I need to build a set of touring wheels, and I have a few questions:

Shimano 105 or XT are in my budget, would one be any better than the other? I have 130mm spacing now,
any concerns about spreading to 135?

Velocity Dyads, good rim? Any other good values for touring rims?

Does anyone have a good online source for DT or WS double butted spokes?

DMF 

105 is a road group and XT is a mountain bike group.

Have you decided yet whether you're building a road bike or a mountain bike?

oldokie

I just built a set for touring using 105, straight 2.0mm spokes and a 700 Sun CR18 rim...32H in front and 36H in rear. Sun rims are more popular in MTB circles but they do make the CR18 in a 700C. It was recommended by my LBS as a strong but economical rim.

They built up well but I cannot report on how they will perform yet because my bike is still in pieces.

bumknees

I've built up 2 sets of wheels using Velocity Dyad rims. The 1st set was for a loaded touring bike, and the 2nd set was for a tandem bike. I'd say they're good beefy rims. I think that you can get prebuilt touring wheels from QBP (via your local bike shop) for a reasonable price; I'm not sure what hubs they're laced to...

Metaluna

I have 36H Dyads laced to XT hubs, built by Peter White. They are very good, bombproof touring rims, though I think probably more expensive than the CR18. The XT hubs are outstanding. Also, 135mm spaced hubs are supposed to build a slightly stronger wheel due to less dish compared to road hubs.

As for spreading...depends on the frame material and the bike. A steel frame should be okay, but you can't do it with carbon or Alu, from what I've read.

ch9862

XT (any shimano MTB really) has better seal, so if you're planning on riding in bad weather / off road it might be better. There is also XT available for disc brakes, so that's another consideration. In general MTB stuff should be stronger (but heavier).

Frame spacing depends on material - I've heard that you can bend steel but alu frames are best left alone.

DT spokes are easy to obtain, I had problems with Wheelsmith in specific lengths; ended up asking LBS to order some for me. For touring straight gauge might be worth considering.

My 2 cents.

hodadmike

Sorry, I neglected to mention in my OP, this is for a cro-moly steel road touring frame, 8 speed Shimano, with canti brakes. I'm 180 lbs. and tour, commute, and rain ride about 2-3k miles a year with this bike. I plan on doing a self contained cross country tour on the Trans Am Trail next year (08) and am an adequate mechanic/maintenance fanatic.

Retro Grouch 

1. 105 hubs will come set up for a frame that's spaced 130mm between the dropouts. XT hubs will be 135mm. Unless I had some additional reason, I'd get the hubs that fit my frame.

2. I rebuilt the wheels for my tandem using Dyad rims. I chose Dyads because I had received several very good recommendations. When I laced up my new tandem wheels, after tensioning the wheel one required very little additional trueing and the other required none at all. I think that's the mark of a straight, sturdy rim.

3. I have the ability to buy bike parts at wholesale. In spite of this, I've taken to buying spokes from Wheelbuilder.com. I get exactly the model and number of spokes that I need and his service has been quite prompt. When I was building my tandem wheels, I wanted to use Alpine III spokes. He emiled me when they were going to be delayed for a week. That's the kind of service that I appreciate.

DMF 

Off topic a bit: What's the deal with wheelbuilder.com? In Firefox several parts of each page seem to be missing. It doesn't look like he's using any ActiveX that would make it Internet Explorer-only. Is it any better in other browsers?

Dogbait

I have used both 105 and XT... no problems with either. I would echo what RG said about using what fits your frame.

Never used Dyads but they have a good reputation. I have built two sets of wheels with Sun CR 18's (see 3502 and 1987 Schwinn SS in my signature) and will use them again unless I need something of a different width. They are a strong, if a little heavy, rim with welded joints. I would also use a 36 hole rim, whatever brand you choose. They will be stronger and the weight savings of a 32 just don't make sense to me on a touring wheel.

I always buy spokes from Mike Garcia at Odds and Endos. He sells Wheelsmith and has all gauges in black or silver, will cut to your length and the price includes nipples.

robo

As others have said, 105 will be lighter, XT will have somewhat better seals (although i've also heard people complain that the drive side has poor seals). 2-3000 miles per year isn't actually very much by touring standards, so either will probably be fine. I guess i would go with the 105 if I was you.

The spacing issue is not a big deal though. It's only 2.5mm difference on each side, and with some mixing and matching of spacers on the non-drive side, you should be able to get the XT down to 130mm. You don't need to change the spacing of your frame permanently (although you could do it with a steel frame).

Retro Grouch 

You'll also have to shorten the axle or your QR won't hold.

bailcash09

I would get 105 - don't mess with your frame unless you have to - you could make some very costly mistakes
Nashbar has WS spokes pretty reasonable, don't know about double butted
Are you building the wheels yourself or having the shop do it?

bailcash09

Just checked Nashbar - they only have single butted 14/15/14 spokes.....sorry
What diameter are you looking for?

halfspeed

I'd go with XT and spread the frame. I spread my old touring frame to 135mm for LX hubs and it has done fine. The XT is a stronger hub and it'll be a stronger wheel with less dish. Also, spend the extra for butted spokes. The Sun CR18 is a popular, affordable rim for this application, but it is only single eyeletted, it seems to need more work to get true than it should, and sometimes the seams are sloppy. Mavic A719s are at the spendy end and A319s are a bit less so. The Dyads should also be fine.

bailcash09

If you really want a stronger wheel why not get straight gauge spokes? If its for weight savings, why not go with the 105 hub - it will probably weigh less anyway ( idk for sure) and then you won't have to mess with your frame, because if you mess up there you'll be looking for a new frame or making costly repairs. I have built rear wheels on road hubs before - I've never had a problem. The ones I've built on have been over 20 yr old 126mm hubs too. You'll be fine with either hub, but I know I wouldn't wanna mess with my frame.

HillRider

That is double butted. They are 14 ga (2.0 mm) at each end and 15 ga (1.8 mm) in the center.

halfspeed

Because the best argued case available for wheel durability supports the idea that butter spokes are better, regardless of any weight savings.

Spreading steel frames from 130 to 135 mm is not the big scary surgery you seem to fear. It's a common procedure and it works well. If spreading to 135 really makes you nervous, go to 132.5 and fit both 130mm and 135 mm hubs. Two and a half mm is about the thickness of a pair of dimes. Don't sweat it.

The OP is building a wheel for touring, I presume fully loaded. In that usage, wheel strength is paramount. MTB type hubs are more weather resistant, more durable and have less dish making an all-around superior assembly. Yes, you can tour on road hubs, but why bother when you don't have to?

urbanknight

Many touring road bikes use mountainbike rear parts to accomodate larger cogs. I would try to match the hub with the frame, but as mentioned above, 5mm is doable.

well biked

Well said. I've got a very nice touring bike from 1983 (Centurion Pro Tour), it's got a 40-spoke rear wheel with a freewheel hub and 126mm rear spacing. As nice as the bike is, that hub is the weak point of the bike (it's the freewheel aspect that makes it especially weak). For touring, go for the strongest rear wheel you can realistically put on there (less dish, 36 spokes at least, cassette hub). These days, that means a "mountain" cassette hub spaced at 135mm. They're not popular with tourists for nothing.

I just respaced my '83 Schwinn le tour luxe frame to 135mm, I'm switching to wheels with "mountain" hubs. I had respaced from 126 to 130 a few years ago so that I could easily use a modern cassette hub, and I'm finally putting wheels on the bike that will better match what I use it for-

well biked

There's no reason you can't use a modern Shimano "mountain" cassette on a modern Shimano "road" hub (and vice versa). You would likely need a "mountain" rear derailleur. But the main purpose of "mountain" hubs on touring bikes is that they make for stronger wheels (less dish on the rear, more robust design for off road riding). The "mountain" hubs are also better sealed-

Retro Grouch 

All of you guys who keep saying how the mountain hubs are sealed better. How so?

An Ultegra hub has different seals than a 105 hub for example, but the seals on LX hub and 105 hubs look the same to me.

well biked

Here's the current 105 front hub:
https://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycl...=1180294410706

And the current LX:
https://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycl...=1180294665222

The "mountain" hubs have rubber seals-

Retro Grouch 

Oops. I'd forgotten about that boot or dust seal or whatever they call it. I was thinking about the neoprene wiper o-ring on the cone.

bailcash09

Sry... I thought that was single and the ones with the ends and center beefed up and the parts bvetween those 15 ga were double butted.....I use mostly straight gauge. Thanks for the correction!