Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

is a propane torch hot enough to desolder steel?

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

is a propane torch hot enough to desolder steel?

Old 06-07-07, 09:41 PM
  #1  
exas
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
exas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
is a propane torch hot enough to desolder steel?


is a propane torch hot enough to desoder the solder holding together steel?
TIA

Last edited by exas; 06-07-07 at 10:11 PM.
exas is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 09:42 PM
  #2  
mtnbk3000
Senior Member
 
mtnbk3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wtf is TIA? anyways if i had to guess no, propane torches work for plumbing and copper.
mtnbk3000 is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 09:44 PM
  #3  
redirekib
I ain't no newbie
 
redirekib's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Goddard Institute - Area 51-Skunk Works Division - Space Age Materials Lab
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 274 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by exas
topic

TIA
Sho' 'nuf is, why we got one feller 'round here usin' a petrol burnin' torch on his'in scooter.
redirekib is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 10:16 PM
  #4  
skingry
Asshat
 
skingry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you are talking about 'brazing'... then maybe. Brass, hell no. Silver, possibly. Might as well get a cheap oxy/mapp torch from the big box if you are removing braze-ons (my guess as to why you asked the question).

TIA = Thanks in advance.
skingry is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 10:33 PM
  #5  
FlatFender
Senior Member
 
FlatFender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 1,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
De-solder - yes.

De-braze - probably not.
FlatFender is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 10:36 PM
  #6  
exas
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
exas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlatFender
De-solder - yes.

De-braze - probably not.
whats the difference between the two? (never did anything like this before)
exas is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 10:42 PM
  #7  
redirekib
I ain't no newbie
 
redirekib's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Goddard Institute - Area 51-Skunk Works Division - Space Age Materials Lab
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 274 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by exas
whats the difference between the two? (never did anything like this before)
Hey feller, ya'll got indoor plummin'? Iffin' ya do, sodder's that shiny, silver lookin' stuff a holdin' yer pipes together. Brazin's a deffer'nt lookin stuff, more brass a lookin, and ya ain't a gunna' melt that stuff with no propain burnin' torch.

Last edited by redirekib; 06-07-07 at 10:50 PM.
redirekib is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 10:54 PM
  #8  
exas
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
exas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by redirekib
Hey feller, ya'll got indoor plummin'? Iffin' ya do, sodder's that shiny, silver lookin' stuff a holdin' yer pipes together. Brazin's a deffer'nt lookin stuff, more brass a lookin, and ya ain't a gunna' melt that stuff with no propain burnin' torch.
i wouldn't be able to tell, there is paint over the solder joints, i guess i could scratch it off and see if it is silver.... but what do they use to solder steel together anyways?
exas is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 11:02 PM
  #9  
redirekib
I ain't no newbie
 
redirekib's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Goddard Institute - Area 51-Skunk Works Division - Space Age Materials Lab
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 274 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by exas
i wouldn't be able to tell, there is paint over the solder joints, i guess i could scratch it off and see if it is silver.... but what do they use to solder steel together anyways?
I dunno' , differ'nt stuff I s'pose. I ain't never done stuck no steel pipes ta'gether.
redirekib is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 11:06 PM
  #10  
FlatFender
Senior Member
 
FlatFender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 1,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The solder metal together with.... solder. Solder is sometimes lead, or a lead/tin alloy, or sometimes with no lead.
I promise your bike has no solder on it.

Steel bikes are brazed. brazing is a bit different than soldering. Brazing can be done with many different metals, mostly brass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazing
FlatFender is offline  
Old 06-07-07, 11:14 PM
  #11  
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,909
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Exas, it's one of those issues that if you have to ask, you may be doing something you shouldn't without a LOT more research.

What exactly are you trying to "desolder"?

Old bike frames (or new if they're Old School like Rivendell or handbuilts) are typically silver soldered or brass brazed, but even with silver the process is referred to as brazing. Either process is a somewhat refined art (not saying you can't do it, just saying that to do it well takes knowledge and skill to make a joint safe enough to ride) and if you're stuck on torch type, you have a lot to learn yet.

Here is a good place to start.
__________________
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 01:22 AM
  #12  
bikejack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by exas
whats the difference between the two? (never did anything like this before)

Low temp Silver Solder is used by plumbers on copper pipes often with propane, what is often referred to as Silver Solder in high end bike tubes is actually Silver Braze and it requires a higher temperature to work.

Propane will put too much heat into the steel before it has any effect on the weld metal.
bikejack is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 07:03 AM
  #13  
Torgrot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lansing, IL
Posts: 246

Bikes: Fuji Grand Fondo 2.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Heating the steel instead of the silver brazing material would probably have a deterimental effect on the steel, not to mention the paint job.

torgrot
Torgrot is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 07:05 AM
  #14  
Thomas Tew
Member
 
Thomas Tew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What kind of bike is held together with solder? aren't they brazed or welded?
Thomas Tew is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 07:11 AM
  #15  
San Rensho 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,656
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by exas
is a propane torch hot enough to desoder the solder holding together steel?
TIA
What exactly are you doing, taking a frame apart or are you torching something on the bike and you want to make sure you don't de-braze the connections?
__________________
Il faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace

1980 3Rensho-- 1975 Raleigh Sprite 3spd
1990s Raleigh M20 MTB--2007 Windsor Hour (track)
1988 Ducati 750 F1
San Rensho is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 08:11 AM
  #16  
vpiuva
*
 
vpiuva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I tried removing braze-ons when doing my single speed conversion and can assure you my propane torch would not remove brass brazed braze-ons. (Silver I haven't tried) Get out the hacksaw and grinder if that's what you're trying to do.
vpiuva is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 09:32 AM
  #17  
rmfnla
Senior Member
 
rmfnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Posts: 6,300

Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 268 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by skingry
If you are talking about 'brazing'... then maybe. Brass, hell no. Silver, possibly. Might as well get a cheap oxy/mapp torch from the big box if you are removing braze-ons (my guess as to why you asked the question).

Brazing is brass.
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
rmfnla is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 09:44 AM
  #18  
FlatFender
Senior Member
 
FlatFender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 1,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rmfnla
Brazing is brass.
or silver, or a few other alloys.
FlatFender is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 09:53 AM
  #19  
rmfnla
Senior Member
 
rmfnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Posts: 6,300

Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 268 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlatFender
or silver, or a few other alloys.
Silver is solder; stronger than lead/tin but still considered solder.

Brass is an alloy.

If you are using some other alloy it isn't brazing (what other alloys do you have in mind?).
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
rmfnla is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 10:33 AM
  #20  
vpiuva
*
 
vpiuva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rmfnla
Silver is solder; stronger than lead/tin but still considered solder.

Brass is an alloy.

If you are using some other alloy it isn't brazing (what other alloys do you have in mind?).
Get as technical as you want, cyclists refer to these high quality frames as "silver brazed"
vpiuva is offline  
Old 06-08-07, 12:34 PM
  #21  
ComPH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Laguna Hills, OC, California
Posts: 265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I built whole bike using just a simple torch (no oxigen). For silver I could use propane, but for brass I had to use MAPP gas to get enough heat. I would not, however, recommend brazing of key components of the frame or fork to anyone without some practice/experience. Simple braze-ons for bottles or racks should be o.k., but I would stay away from forks. Henry James sells practice parts and can be a great source of particular advice (or alternatelly the guys on "Framebuilders" forum).
ComPH is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
okane
Classic & Vintage
17
03-10-14 06:04 AM
Neil_B
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
27
12-16-08 08:25 PM
SDallen
Road Cycling
33
03-31-08 07:18 PM
newsace
Commuting
10
12-27-06 05:54 PM
RunYun
Bicycle Mechanics
13
04-02-03 11:31 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.