digger

I have Micelin Axial Bi-Sport 700x23mm tires with a kevlar bead.

I am trying to mount them on a 700c Sun Venus rim.

I have been trying for about 1 hour to mount these damn tires and all I have to show for it is skinned knuckles and a damned soul which will burn for eternity due to the swearing I was doing.

Does anyone have any advice on how to mount these tires?

Oh, I have a wire bead tire on the back rim, it slides right on and off, hardly need a tire lever.

Digger

pokey

Some would consifer it poor form,but there are some tire/ rim combinations that require a tire lever and care not to puncture the tube.Make sure the bead that is on the rim is centered in the deepest part, and sometimes soapy water helps.I've used the lever rather than loose all the skin off me thumbs.

faith

Digger;

From experience… I have Michelin Axial Bi-Sport 700x23mm tires with Kevlar bead and yes they are a BEAR to mount the first time. I used a liberal amount of talc inside the tire casing to ease the effort. No way I could mount these tires without three levelers even with Herculean fingers. Mine are mounted on 700C DUREX rims and I never leave home without tire levels in the tool kit.

BTW since switching to Continental tubes with these tires I haven’t had a flat (several thousand miles on tires/tubes). Take heart, I found them slightly easier to reinstall after they had a thousand miles on them (removed to true wheels). If you use talc it will still be in the tire when you need it most (for an on the road repair).

Nice tires all in all, enjoy the great traction and always be certain to run with max air pressure to protect tire, tube and rim!

Cheers;

Herculean

mike

Make sure you have all the air out of the tube and, of course, use tire irons.

You might also soap the rims and tire walls.

digger

I know that tire levers, making sure the air out of the tires, not pinching the tube, makeing sure the bead is seated, talc, soapy water, etc are the requirements when removing/installing a tire.

I HAVE done this before.

I have had these tires (kevlar bead) in the past and not not have THIS much difficulty removing/mounting them.

This particular tire has about 1500km on it and has not stretched, the other is brand new, both arew equally difficult.

I have had wire rims of the same brand and they slide right on using your fingers.

What I want to know is:
1) is it just me all of a sudden that cannot mount a tire
2) do manufactures sometimes goof up and make them a tad smaller
3) is there some other device that would make it easier for removal? Other than a knife.

I cannot imagine fixing a flat on the road and have to remove these tires. It is impossible now to mount them when in the comfort of my basement.

If any of you work or had worked in a bike store perhaps you can help me? Have you gotten tires that where hard to remove or mount on a rim? If so, what did you do? How the hell will I be able to get these tires off if I get a flat when riding?

Digger

pokey

Ever replaced a tube without taking tire off rim?

digger

Ever replaced a tube without taking tire off rim?

You have to take one side of the tire/bead from the rim to remove and replace the tube.

Whether it is ONE side of the tire or the whole tire itself, I am finding it impossible.

Digger

pokey

I've done it, but maybe it depends on the rim.

mike

If you know what you are doing and the tire is still giving you that much grief, bring it to a bike shop. You will be relieved and the shop wrench will feel like a hero. They like that.

RegularGuy

I know it's the wimps' way out, but Crank Bros. Speed Lever, Kool Stop Bead Jack, or Park Tools TL-10 shop tire lever might help you out. I keep the Speed Lever in the saddle bag on my roadie. Not everyone loves it the way I do, but I'm swearing by it.

RegularGuy

LINKS for the above mentioned products:

Kool Stop Bead Jack

Park Tools Shop Lever

Crank Brothers (You'll have to navigate to the Speed Levers page).

RacerX

fold the tires up and put them in a pot of hot, soapy water. Let them soak in there until the water turns cool. Tires will pop on with levers.
It sounds crazy but it might work for you.

RainmanP

Speed Levers are great, but they have their limits. I'm not sure they would do much good on such a tight tire. I have had to resort to regular levers for really tight ones.

Yes, manufacturers do make tires on the small end of the acceptable range sometime. I use the same tires all the time and occasionally get one that seems nearly impossible to mount.

Styk33

I worked at a bike shop for around 2 years. I have been still working on local bikes over the past 5 years, just to keep in practice and be nice. I bought a set of slicks for my MTB for my commute. I had never had so many problems with mounting tires in my life. I got the tire as far as I could and it was spanning 7 spokes. It took about 2 hours to get the darn thing on. Then I had to do the other. I saved that for another day since my thumbs were shorter from trying to install the first one.

You are not alone with the problem. I just kept with it and I finally go them. After some miles and removing them a few times they are easier now, but still the worst thing I had ever seen (I though I had bought some 24" tires at first).

My suggestion (on top of what others said), is to try and roll the tire over the edge fo the rim. Do not try to push it up and over, but grab the top of the tire and roll it up and over. Kind of like pulling it across the edge of the rim.

Good luck.

John E

Perhaps Sheldon or someone else has already beaten me to it, but I think a chart of tyre/rim compatibility would be quite useful, as not all ISO-622 rims and tyres are of precisely equal diameter. I just had a suprisingly tough time mounting one of my used 700Cx23mm Continental Ultra2000s onto a NOS, freshly-laced Campag. Omega rim, and actually needed tyre levers for BOTH beads. I do not need tyre levers at all when mounting the same tyre onto an Araya rim. Interestingly, my spokes loosened slightly when I installed the tyre; I am going to retension them to see whether this reduces the rim diameter a bit. (The tyre puts up only a modest fight when I mount it onto another Campag. Omega wheel, whose spokes are a bit tighter.) Unable to install the tyre using broad plastic tyre levers, I gave up and used narrower plastic levers, instead. I cannot recall the last time I had this much grief with a tyre installation.

digger

I was successfull in removing the tire, I think because it got terrified of the threats I was giving it and decided to finally come off. I wore my motorcycle gloves to avoid more bashed knuckles (I have bladed spokes on the front - hence a sharp edge perfect for knuckle busting).

Anyway, NOW I want to get the thing on.

I had soaked the tire in BOILING soapy water, let it cool but still no luck. There is a 9 inch section of bead (second one, first bead goes on fine) that will just not flip over the edge. The bead of the tire is down past the rim in line with the nipples as they enter the rim (this might not make sense, sorry). I have a deep dish rim so the greatest distance from the bead to where it has to flip over the rim is about 1 inch. It WILL NOT move that far with my puny muscles.

Soooo I am taking it into the LBS and asking those guys about it, and perhaps buying a better tire tool.

Two weeks ago I had return the same brand of tire (Axial Bi Sport) because the bead was busted. It was a brand new tire with about 1000km on it. I thought it was defective, but perhaps I broke it removing the tire. It was a bit difficult getting off, but putting back on was more difficult, but I did get it after 10-15 minutes or so. When I started to inflate it I noticed the tire was leaning over to one side, I though - "funny, perhaps it is not seated right" so I took a closer look and notice the bead was busted. Took it in and they said they would replace it (didn't have the same brand at the time but where expecting a shipment soon).

So, I am thinking that if I force it too much I am going to break it, and I am worried that the straining I have been doing on this tire has weakend it to the point that it MAY break.

This has never happened to me before. I would like the shop to replace BOTH tires, but I doubt it.

I'll let you know what happens.

Digger

mike

John, you are a smart enough guy to know that something isn't right. Did all your spokes loosen when you put the tire on? What do you think the chances are that a tire (or anything) can compress a rim? Maybe it can compress part of the rim, but then another part will have to convex outward to compensate.

I would give it a good look-over before taking the spoke wrench to it. Maybe even ride it for awhile to see if the tire seats better and averages the tension around the rim more evenly.

daniel22

Just look in a catalog such as the Third Hand. They sell tools for your problem. I have a VAR tool. It hooks on to the bead on one side of tire, the other side of tool goes on the rim. What it does, it gives you the needed leverage.

Daniel

roadbuzz

Phooey. I was going to recommend the VAR tire tool, too, but Daniel beat me to it. The main advantage to the VAR is that you can slip tight beads up over the rim while eliminating the possibility of pinching the tube with a lever, which usually only happens with tight beads. But, you can still pinch the tube between the bead and the rim. And, too, if it's extremely tight, like yours, the VAR can bend and lacks sufficient oomph to do the job (I've only had one tire in 6 years where this was the case).

The thing about Kevlar is that it stretches. So, tires with Kevlar beads are often made with a smaller diameter beads than the same models with wire beads. After you once get it on, subsequent mountings are usually easier. If the situation ever occurs again, you can probably wedge the bead up over the rim as tight as you can get it and leave it overnight. By morning, the Kevlar will have stretched sufficiently to let you complete the job.

digger

OK here it goes.

As you know I was able to remove the tire and replace the tube with much effort. THEN I tried to get the tire back on. Didn't have any luck. That's where I left off.

Soooo, I brought it into the bike store and said "guys I just can't get it on"

So one shouted out "pharmacy is next door, we don't sell viagra here"

(ha ha very funny).

The bike mechanic takes the wheel looks at it, mumbles something to himself, sits down, places one edge of the tire in his lap - push, push then snap. Tire goes right over the rim. After I am finally able to speak I ask "just how the #$@% did you do that?!"

Apparantly you have to use the balls of your hands and work from either side of the bead inwards. He took the bead off the rim and using the same technique I was able to put it on the rim in seconds. Apparantly (DUH) I was doing it wrong by grabbing the tire and pulling up to get it over (always worked before) it is better to push it over.

So, getting home I want to try it again. I had trouble getting the tire off until I put a small bead of soap on the levers and "ZIP!" right off. Then using the mechanics technique, push, push SNAP right on over.

Soo, for the past 15 years of cycling, never having this problem before, i did not know how to properly mount a tire.


From now on I am going to carry a small vial of soap to remove tires, and I now know the proper technique to mount a tire.

Digger

Phatman

ahah! Ive found an error! Kevlar does not stretch. At least not nearly as much as a steel wire. This is why kevlar is used in bullet-proof vests-it doesn't stretch. It if it did, when it was hit by a bullet, it would just stretch and stretch, until the bullet penetrated the wearer's body. Kevlar is also used in the sails of racing boats, because it doesn't stretch. Stretch in this area would mean less energy from the same size sail.

the reason why kevlar beads are used isn't so they stretch when going onto the rim. they are used b/c they are lighter then a wire bead, and kevlar doesn't crimp, so the tire is foldable.

So HA!

roadbuzz

Busted!

Yes, the reason for Kevlar beads is weight savings. And, no, I don't have it on good authority that tire makers make the beads smaller on tires when using Kevlar because of stretch. I may have read it in a discussion forum, such as this, or just made it up because it sounded right. Don't remember.

While the support for your argument is at least as scientific as mine, or at least there's more of it, I'm not willing to agree yet. I mean, there's stretch, and there's stretch. Kevlar is a very tough material, but will stretch slowly. Like silly putty. Attempt to stretch it fast, it breaks. Pull slow, it stretches. Kevlar is strong, doesn't break easy. But under slow, unrelenting tension, it stretches.

ChipRGW

Just to create a pointless argument...

Everything stretches.
Some things stretch a lot
Some things stretch a little
some things stretch almost imperceptibly
But everything stretches.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...

RegularGuy

The Kool Stop Bead Jack I mentioned above works on the same principle as the VAR tool (which is no longer made by VAR). The Kool Stop tool is beefier and offers more leverage but is too large to carry in a saddle bag.

roadbuzz

Good link. They make a lot of cool/unusual stuff.