1970's Raleigh International
 

Hi, I have an early 70's Raleigh international that I was dooped into tearing down and rebuilding for my future father-in-law. I have moderate experience with working on bikes, but have not run into the type of bottom bracket this bike has. It's a campy bottom bracket, and I'm basically positive it is an "adjustable" bottom bracket. My question is, can I replace this bottom bracket with a cartridge style, or do I need to rebuild the current equipment? I believe the markings on the BB were 1.370 x 24, either that or 1.375. I have already read everything I can find in the forums regarding my specific question, as well as the park tool and sheldon brown websites, just looking for a bit more specific info if it's out there. Thanks.

Hey, that's a great bike! I've got one, too, and I did have a heckuva time removing the fixed cup on the bb. It has standard English threading (your 1.370 x 24 markings confirm this) with a 68mm shell. Sheldon describes a homeade bb tool on his site, I used that to finally break mine free (I suspect mine had been on the bike since 1972). On my bike, interestingly enough, the bb shell actually measures 66.5mm, a very "non-standard" measurement. What you have probably found is that there are caged bearings in the bb. I would simply use new, loose bearing balls and repack the bb after cleaning everything up, assuming nothing is damaged. Yes, it's an adjustable bottom bracket, meaning you put the fixed cup in first (drive side), then use the adjustable cup to do the bearing adjustment. Your bb is likely part of the original Campy Nuovo Record group that came on the bike. I'm a big fan of cartridge bearing bb's, but if it were me, I'd stick with the original, if possible, on this one-

Just the info I needed to clear things up a little bit, thanks.

are you planning to replace regardless of its shape?

Not necessarily. I bought the appropriate tools and pulled it apart last night. The parts are a little worn, but overall in okay shape. I'm going to clean them up and see how they work. If they don't, then I'll consider replacing the entire unit.

The critical thing on the original bb is the cups. If everything looks good there, you should be fine to contiunue using the bb. Did you find that it had caged bearings? Mine did, I strongly suspect these were the original bearings from 1972. Regardless, I strongly recommend replacing the bearing balls, and going with loose balls instead of using caged bearings. You will need 11 1/4" Grade 25 balls per side-

I did find it had caged bearings. The cups looked okay, but I haven't cleaned them up entirely. The lube used by the last person to service this bike has since turned into a bit of an Elmer's glue solution, so it's taking a little extra care when cleaning everything. Can you explain the bearings to me, I'm not familiar with purchasing them, as this will be my first time replacing bearings on any bike. I've always been able to repack them. Also, is it possible that the front hub on the campy group has 10 bearings in one side and 9 on the other. I'm absolutely positive after rebuilding it last night that I did not lose a bearing, and when I put it back together there would have been no place for a 10th bearing on the side I placed nine in. I found this to be a little strange. The wheel rolls beautifully now that it is repacked, just wondering what your experience is.

Boy, were you lucky that the bike has English threads. It will make replacing the bb easy when the time comes.

A friend has a '71 or '72 Raleigh Super Course and the bb has Raleigh's proprietary threads of 1.375 x 26tpi so an English bb will start to thread in a couple of turns then bind because the thread pitch isn't quite right. Raleigh cups are rare birds and strictly specialty items so you are fortunate not to need them.

You can buy a bag of 100 Grade 25 balls for about $3.50. Check the size. Most common size for BBs is 1/4". No matter how good your current ones look, replace them. You can't see anything but the grossest wear on a ball bearing.

I like to re-use the spider but others don't. If you don't use the spider, insert however many balls will comfortably fit. There should be the same number on both sides. It's possible that an odd ball was lost inside the hub on the last rebuild.

Nothing above the Super Course had the 26tpi threads. Even off-and-on through the years, you'll find early Super Courses with 24tpi BBs as well, with no rhyme, reason, or explanation for these oddities. Regardless though, everything from Nottingham (pre '76) above the S.C. had 24tpi, which includes the Gran Sport, Competition, International, and Professional. After '76 (the all-red editions), the Super Course acquired 24tpi BB threading permanently.

Take care,

-Kurt

As DMF said, bearing balls are cheap, there's just no reason to re-use them. You can probably get them at your bike shop, or someplace online like www.loosescrews.com Or at a bearing supply house. Again, you'll need eleven 1/4" balls for each side of the bb. As for the hub, my guess is that someone serviced it before and lost a ball, but don't worry, it's not highly critical to be one short. It would have been better to have replaced the balls there, too, but since it spins smoothly as you say, you should be good to go. The general rule of thumb for the correct number of balls to use is to pack them in until they jumble up, then remove one. Except for headsets, where you should pack them in until they jumble up, and then remove two.

Btw, I started a thread in Classic and Vintage regarding my International a while back, I got some great info and feedback. Here's a link to the thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=256051

Since then, I've found a Regina 14 x 26 five speed freewheel for the bike, and also a very nice vintage 700c clincher wheelset, Ofmega hubs with Mavic Module E rims. Not exactly period correct, but fairly close. My plan is to lace the Module E rims to the original Campy Record hubs, which are currently still laced to the Fiamme tubulars-

Also, Sheldon has a great website on old Raleighs: www.retroraleighs.com

Thanks for the clarification. I guess my friend was just "lucky" to get a Super Course with the 26tpi bottom bracket.

I didn't realize that the higher line Raleighs used English threading instead of their proprietary thread pitch. Maybe they came with Campy components and Campy only made English and Italian threaded bb's at that point.

It does sound like your friend was "lucky":D with his Super Course and the Raleigh threading, on Sheldon's retroraleighs site he says the Super Course was the least expensive Raleigh not to use the Raleigh threading, implying that a Super Course should have English threads. But on a similar note, my Raleigh International should have a brazed-on cable stop bridge on the seatstays to go along with the stock brakes that would have been on it (Weinmann centerpulls). I've checked with the original owner, and the bridge was never there. Lots of "should haves," "would haves" when it comes to old Raleighs, I think. :p Interestingly, the original owner of my bike says he upgraded the Weinmanns to Campy sidepulls (completing the Nuovo Record gruppo) when the bike was brand new, which made the bridge completely unnecessary anyway. As the current owner of the bike, I'm glad he did- :)

Thanks to everyone with there excellent advice. I truly think that the people interested in old Raleighs give the best answers to questions without making me feel like an idiot. Sheldon Browns website is magnificent, and I appreciate the reference to it. I've been getting a lot of info from that and a few other sources that are not so complete. Again, Thank you for the answers, and I'll let you know how it all turns out!