"Wheel killer" needs a new wheelset
 

I've broken 11 spokes this year on my cyclocross-commuter wheelset. I had the rear rebuilt with DT spokes and a Mavic CXP22 rim - 32-holes. The rim now has a nasty crack in it and I am going to need a new wheelset much sooner than later.

I think what killed my rim was running into a pothole. It seemed that once the wheel was rebuilt, it was doing OK until I hit this pothole back in September. Since then, I've replaced several spokes in the front and rear wheels and just recently noticed the crack in the rim.

I have broken just about every wheelset I've ever owned. I commute on descent/average roads year-round and need to have a set of 32 or 36-hole disc wheels built for the cross-commuter.

I'm thinking about Mavic CXP33's because of their stiffness, but I also know that they have "profiled" eyelets which do not have a rivet like a standard eyelet. I'm really, really, really tired of breaking spokes and finding cracks in my rims (cracked a rear Mavic Open Pro also) and want as close to a permanent solution as I can get. I'm leaning towards Chris King Hubs and, of course, will be using good spokes, but I really need to know if the Mavic 33's are subject to cracking, or if I should reduce spoke-count to 32 so I can use a DT 1.2 or a velocity deep V.

Look no further than a 32h front and 36h rear Deep-V. Use 2.0/1.8/2.0 all the way around. You could consider thinner (1.5) spokes for the NDS rear spokes, which will help prevent them from going slack on a big bump.

If you build up a 32h/36h set of Deep-Vs, you can go around and re-shape potholes at will. That's what I ride and race on, and my brother-in-law too (I built both sets). He actually has several wheelsets, but always uses the Deep-Vs because of "feel" and reliability. His are 18 months old now, and I did the pluck test on the rear, and every single spoke on the drive side still plays exactly same note. It's like the wheels haven't aged at all. He was 200 lbs when he started riding them, and is 185 now. I'm down to 178, but I still prefer my Deep Vs.

Many new racing tandems have 36h Deep-Vs...

Another thing to try is to use wider tires if at all possible. This reduces the forces acting on the rim/wheel.

If possible I'd go to 36H. The spoke pattern of a 36H will pull together the seam opposite the valve. The 32H doesn't offer that same support - the spokes actually pull the seam apart. I can't prove it helps, but I have a lot of light 28H wheels which lasted a long time (28s pull the seam together too).

Unless you're doing insane miles, carry tons of stuff, or ride through salt water and acid to get to work, you shouldn't be breaking spokes all the time. Either the wheelbuilding isn't 100%, spokes aren't being replaced when necessary, or you need to change some riding habits.

When you break your second spoke in a given wheel, re-lace the entire wheel to "reset" the spoke lifetime countdown. All spokes age at the same time and they'll all break at about the same time. Once a couple goes the rest will follow shortly. Of course you should make sure the spokes are actually breaking. One of my teammates complained of broken spokes - when I examined the wheels, I found the alloy nipples had corroded and were breaking - the spokes were fine.

This is all assuming the wheel was built well and has reasonable and even spoke tension. An over-tensioned wheel is much more likely to break spokes and crack rims (although all spokes will eventually break and all rims will eventually crack/fail). A wheel that is constantly trued due to a bent rim will eventually have some extremely tensioned spokes - those will fail earlier than the normally tensioned spokes. If the wheel is out of true (but ridable) but the spoke tension is even, then leave it alone - the tension used to force the rim into a different shape will contribute towards early spoke failure.

I've rarely built a wheel where the rim is perfect - and the few rims I built recently are horrible (aluminum anyway). If the wheel is built to be as straight as possible, it may not be the strongest. Decide which is more important - form or function - and have the wheelbuilder do things based on your priority. This may result in an imperfect wheel (usually at the seam) but one that lasts a lot longer.

Finally, you're probably putting the wheels under a great deal of stress. Traffic, heavy bags, and a sleepy or exhausted rider isn't good for avoiding holes, bunnyhopping the unavoidable holes and obstacles, and even simply unweighting the saddle as necessary. I understand that you may not have a choice (I've ridden in midtown Manhattan during rush hour - talk about not having too much choice on where to ride) but there are many techniques which will help keep you and your bike alive. They include bunnyhopping (backpacks actually help you to bunnyhop, panniers hurt bunnyhops), slowing/stopping, or being a little firmer in traffic can help save both your wheels and your bike/life/etc. If you're doing 'cross then I'm preaching to the choir but you get my point.

If your wheel problems continue and reliability is more important that lightweight/performance, then I'd look into heavier duty wheels (perhaps a set of wheels for commuting, another for 'cross). Low flange hubs (longer spokes), at least 3 or 4 cross (again, longer spokes), capped with a big, fat tire and tube. Our tandem hits everything hard (we can't bunnyhop it and I've hit some pretty big things on the road) and it's a bit disconcerting to me. However, the wheels (700c 40 spoke with disc brakes) have held up fine over historically rough New England frost heaved and potholed roads, even with a 330 pound "rider" and a 40 pound bike (loaded).

hope this helps,
cdr

So you've cracked two lightweight mavic rims and are thinking about getting a third? That's not what I'd do.

The Deep V's seem to be pretty popular amongst city folk but they seem a little heavy to me. What about the Dyad? there lighter and cheaper and alot of people trust them for touring? Seems like a touring wheel is what you need. They're a bit wider but I think Carp's point about using wider tires might be a good one if potholes are a problem.

http://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/index.html

May want to read and try his suggestions on a stronger wheel.

I recommend a 36H at the rear too.

Yeah, for performance, the Deep-V will be a more efficient wheel because of the deeper, more aerodynamic profile. Good point about the wider Dyad and commuting tires though.

Clydes have tons of problems breaking spokes and destroying wheels - I'm going through something similar. After much research here and over the interwebs I'm going with Deep-Vs 36 on the back. The Dyads are a close second but after seeing a bigger friend of mine (300#) run Deep Vs with 23mm tires on NYC pothole strewn streets I'm a believer - holes that knocked my mtb wheels out of true are still fine on his. Of course the build is as important as the rim/spokes.

Check out my sig, I have a two big sections on heavy duty wheels. Also you don't need the Chris King hubs - check out this thread.

I'm a Clyde at 235ib's. 36 spoke 3 cross Velocity Dyads laced to Phil's. 14/15 dbl. butted DT spokes on a dedicated Touring / Commuting bike that carries lot's of stuff. In 4,500 miles have never broken a spoke.

Richard

Thanks for the excellent feedback, all. Best question award goes to thechamp "So you've cracked two lightweight mavic rims and are thinking about getting a third?"

Thanks, Air for all the great cross-threads. No pun intended.

I'm leaning towards the Deep-V's, although I'm probably going to have get valve extenders for my Slime tubes. They only come in 48 mm as far as I know. Any of you have to use valve extenders with the Deep Vs?

Also, after reading Sheldon Brown's post on another thread, it looks like I'm back to the drawing board on the hubs. I very much like good sealed bearings, but since I'm averaging 10,000+ miles per year in all kinds of weather, I need something that's servicable. I was originally going to go with Phil Woods, but their bearings are press-fit into the hubs and don't seem very servicable to me. Maybe they wouldn't need it for a long, long time.

I am running a machine built velocity Deep V rear wheel on my fixie. There have been times when I got flat running a 28C tire that took awhile before realizing it went flat. The tread of the tire is pretty thick. The Deep V is a gold standard in durability. I think Jens5 wheelbuild components should give you what you want in terms of durability. Consider the purchase of Phil hubs to be the last.

If you don't want to ever think about losing a wheel again consider the Velocity Dyad 40 spoke laced to a Phil hub.

I don't see 130mm Phil hubs in 40h...

Yes, it helps very much. I've read it twice now. Thanks.

I was a big believer in Slime tubes until I got a nasty puncture and got slime on EVERYTHING. Plus I could not patch it afterwards - it let me ride one mile before going flat. I only carry them as a spare now only because I already have them and not because I see the value in them. My $0.02 ;)

And 10,000 per year? Damn that's awesome!

I have a problem with my rear wheels getting bent. I'm a heavier guy, and my city has the worst streets in the country (-40C winters, short summers, heavy traffic, low funding for repairs)

I finally built up a rear wheel with a 36 spoke, Triple-wall rim (Alex DV30) It's pretty heavy, but I've been riding for 3 months without it going out of true.

BTW, my front is a much lighter DA22, 36 spoke.

If you aren't concerned about weight, maybe a solid rim with high spoke count would help you. Consider tandem wheels, possibly!

Don't think Aerodynamics is a consideration in commuting but the Velocity is pretty strong. Another rim to consider is the DT Swiss RR1.1 with the double eyelet. I would go 36H 3X for your commuting wheels. I ride a cross bike with 36H 4X Mavic Open Pro on campy hubs and haven't broken a spoke in 8K miles almost all off road with plenty of rough spots. 3X would have been better because of small flanged hubs.

Well, I'm shooting for 10,000. The last couple of months, I've been averaging over that, but it's hard to pull it off for the whole year. You get the idea.

My first experience with slimed tubes was not a good one. 23 hours after puchase and installation the sucker went flat in 10 seconds, spewing "alien goo" all the way through to the tire. It was a fairly small puncture, smaller than the 1/8" they claim to be able to plug, but it was to no avail. I bought two and we'll see if the other one lasts any longer. I replaced the rear tire, also - I flatted the other day. Two flats inside a week means to me that my tire is too thin.

I never patch tires. I had to the other night in an emergency situation when I broke the valve on my presta-tube inflating it with the hand-pump, but the tire was flat again in the morning. I learned my lesson on patching tubes when I got pwned by one during a time trial. I'm just glad I was close to the start/finish and was able to limp back instead of walking nine miles.

That's a great run on those wheels! I've also seen the DT 2.1's, but they only come in 32-hole versions.

I bought a set of Mavic Open Pro's machine built with ultegra hubs in 2005. They developed several stress fractures emanating from the eyelets after one year of commuting. I also broke a spoke or two on that set, as well. It makes me so angry. I was under 210 most of that year and Georgia has good road surfaces. I just don't understand why I kill so many wheels. I know I'm a pedal masher, but the worst thing I ever do is ride over a few pot-holes when I can't merge into the lane because of the cars. I know people that have never broken a spoke and I've broken almost two dozen on eight different wheel sets since 2004. I'm beginning to think I need downhilll wheels.

I think I'll try the Deep-V's with King hubs. I was originally going to go with CXP33's but I'm starting to have my doubts about Mavic. The Deep V's do weigh in at almost 600 grams though - yikes! I don't think I can use Shimano hubs because I already have ISO (6-bolt) disc brakes and I only see Center-Lock hubs on-line.

Sounds like a great set of wheels. I'm still riding around on my cracked CXP22, I need to get off that wheelset yesterday!

40
 

http://www.philwood.com/Touring%20Hubs.htm

+4 for the Deep-V rims. I'm considered a lightweight rider but i've got them on 2 bikes (hence the +4, one for each wheel). :D

Aerospoke cf wheels might be the thing for you. No metal spokes at all. bk

Ah yes, touring != road (ugh). Very cool though. Those are sweet hubs.

Y'all are probably going to hate me, but I just had to buy an emergency set of Mavic Speedcity's. The spoke was about to pull completely through the rear rim. The aluminum was begining to flake like pottery. I had to do it.

The Speedcity's were the only wheels I could get my hands on inside of a week. I didn't want to switch all my gear over to my mono-braked track bike. Here's hoping they last through Christmas. They sure are nice to look at, though. Probably took a pound off my bike weight, too. Gulp. Also, the manager at my LBS had them on clearance and threw in the MP3 Thanks again for all the great suggestions. Feel free to keep the post going. I'll update this post on the longevity of the new hoops.

Here's a link to the description. Pray for me. Pray for the wheels . . .

http://www.mavic.com/mtb/products/Speedcity.995625.aspx

Get a Rigida ( or Alesa) Sputnik in 36 h. They are certainly not road rims and even for a touring rim they are big and heavy, but they are absolutely bombproof. We build them all thhe time in our shop for rohloff equipped bikes.

A rohloff hub has only 32 spoke holes and can only be laced two cross. We have customers who literally go around the world on their rohloff bikes and when I see those bikes at the shop, the wheels are as true as the day they left it.

Initial impression of the Mavic SpeedCity's is pretty positive. They feel very stiff and solid. They have straight-pull spokes. Hopefully these will last at least six months to a year or more.