NRRider

Have a 10 speed Ultegra 12/27 cassette that I'm trying to convert to an 11/27 by removing the 16T and spacer. Bought the special lockring for the 11T cog, but after tightening the cassette down there is noticeable play in the cogs (i.e., they don't tighten down and they move around when touched). I would have thought the spacer built into the 11T would have taken the place of the spacer I removed when I took out the 16T. Any ideas for what's wrong?
I suppose I can try losing the 12T instead of the 16T, but that's not my preferred approach. (I'm assuming the 11T is the same thickness as the 12T, but I supposed I should test that out too.)
Any ideas?

Edit: Oddly, the AEBike website says the 11T only fits the 11-23 cogsets. Thoughts? https://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...ils&sku=FW4667

maddmaxx 

On my cassettes, the smallest cog is spaced slightly wider than the others. There is a small relief in the next up cog for it to fit into which brings the spacing back to normal.
Are you using 2 cogs set up for lockrings?

Edit: I'm looking at a SRAM cassette, not an Untegra so this may not be what you see on yours.

NRRider

I ditched the 12T (which was the smallest) and replaced with the 11T, so I don't think I'm using 2 cogs set up for lockrings. BTW, I edited my original post. Thanks.

sam83

That should have worked. I have that set up on 2 wheelsets in both DA and Ultegra. Try restacking it. What kind of wheels are you using?

sam83

Ummmm.... I'm confused. You still need the 12t. If you ditch the 16t and the 12t, you're down to a 9 speed. All you do is buy an 11t and 11t lock ring, and ditch the 16t, spacer and 12t lock ring.

There is not a special pos. 2 12t for an 11t cassette. It's the same for either.

11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27

NRRider

What I meant to say was I tried it both ways: once with the 12T and no 16T, and once with the 16T and no 12T. Did it exactly as you described (keeping the 12T) and the cogs rattled, and they rattled when I ditched the 12T and kept the 16T as well. Wheel is a Ksyrium SL.

sam83

I converted a while ago on 9 spd hubs (Real Design and Bontrager), but I want to say that I remember that there was something unusual about Mavic. Maybe not.

Have you tried putting it back to the 12-27 to see if the problem goes away? There is an extra spacer that you have to use on 9 speed hubs that goes behind the cassette. I wonder if that's the problem (although it would exhibit the same issues in stock 12-27 form).

I don't really know anything about Mavic. Maybe they use a behind the cassette spacer (or different spacer) for 11t set up, or there is a certain way the 11t meshes with end of the carrier.

NRRider

Yes, used the spacer (didn't even take off anything lower than the 16). No problem with the 12-27, though I did notice that a lot of tightening was required in order to eliminate the rattle. Doesn't help with the 11 in there. Still rattles.

Bill Kapaun

https://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#hyperdrivec

NRRider

Thanks. I'll need to check that out, but it's hard to believe I have anything other than the current "C" body, as the wheel is only 2 years old (it's a Ksyrium SL). Note I did replace with the smaller lockring so that's not the problem.

sam83

Maybe it's a Mavic thing. Take a look at where the raised ridges end. That's what is probably stopping the 11t from seating farther down.

artemidorus

10 speed shimano cassettes need 2 hubside spacers on a mavic hub, one being the standard shimano 10spd spacer and the other being the one you use because the cassette is shimano rather than mavic. The first should have come with the cassette and the second with the wheel. Chances are you are missing one or both.

NRRider

Is that right? Boy I had no idea. No wonder I have to tighten so hard to get the 12-27 snug. I don't remember reading that elsewhere, but I just googled what you said and you seem to be right on. Thanks! I'll give it a try.
Do you knw if the wheel be useable on other bikes set up for non-Mavic wheels without adjusting the derailleur?

artemidorus

The correct spacers should put the cassette in the same position as it would sit on another wheel. A little fine tuning is sometimes required, but I can swap my Mavic and Shimano wheels without adjustment.

Al1943

You need to remove the 16 and a spacer, remove the 12 with built-in spacer, add a single twelve and the spacer that was with the i6, then add the 11 with built-in spacer.
As said above, typically with a Shimano compatible MAVIC hub you both need a MAVIC spacer (2 mm I think) and the 1 mm Shimano spacer in the back.

Personally I'd rather have the 12-27, but it's your cassette.

Al

NRRider

Thanks all. I'll buy a 2mm spacer and hopefully that'll solve the problem.

Al1943--I like the 12-27 but want to go a bit faster on some downhills where I'm currently spinning out (FYI--using a compact up front). If I find I'm missing the 16T it's easy enough to switch back. Also want to change to an 11T high gear on my trainer wheel (non-Mavic) since some of the hill training on the trainer just doesn't give enough resistance at the lower cadence with the 12T cog.

artemidorus

Check this - I think the Mavic spacer is a little smaller than 2mm. Do you have the Shimano 10spd cassette spacer?

NRRider

Yes, I have the Shimano. What I've read says the Shimano spacer is 1mm, and I can either add a 2mm spacer or pull the 1mm and just use a 3mm spacer for an 8 speed.

sam83

Shimano does not make a 12t without a spacer for the 10 spd cassette.

In fact, the pos. 2 12t in an 11-23, etc. cassette is the EXACT same 12t as the pos. 1 12t in a 12-25, etc. cassette.

Al1943

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. I don't have any cassettes with an 11.

sam83

Well you should... with the wind!!!

NRRider

Just to follow up, LBS had the necessary spacer and it's now up and running.
Many thanks to all, but especially al1943 and artemidous.

Al1943

I can't even spin out a 53-39/13-26.