Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Brand new bike with a flat tire

Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Brand new bike with a flat tire

Reply

Old 01-20-08, 04:50 PM
  #1  
roadnoob412
Ad astra per aspera.
Thread Starter
 
roadnoob412's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 185

Bikes: '08 Electra Boney Finger, '08 Cannondale R5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Brand new bike with a flat tire

Ok guys,

I searched the forums for similar topics and didn't find much, so here goes....

About two weeks ago, I purchased my first road bike - a 2008 Cannondale CAAD9 5. It's a great bike, needs a few adjustments, but I'm otherwise happy. I've only logged about 100 miles on it, so I went out for a ride today to get a few hours in the saddle. About halfway into my ride, I felt my rear wheel go down.

Each time I ride, I put air in my tires and inflate to 110psi per my Topeak JoeBlow pump. I ride the same route almost all the time, and I have to say, I'm not a 'petite' guy at 6'1" and 250lbs. I counted on having to replace tires more often due to my size, but am I doing something wrong? Should I be putting more/less air in my tires? I had the same issue with my MTB and was at a point where I was ready to give up. I really don't want to do that, as I love riding and have way too much invested in this, both physically and financially.

The bike came with Maxxis Fuse Foldable, 700 X 23C tires and what I'm guessing are standard tubes. Is it possible I could run a different tire and tubes that would help? I know most of you are thinking, 'Maybe if your big *** would just lose some weight it wouldn't be a problem.' Trust me I agree with you. I've just recently started working out regularly and joined weight watchers to help with this and have been doing really well. When I started on my journey to lose weight I weighed 286! So, I'm making progress, but clearly not fast enough.

Any help or advice would be great. I'm taking my bike back to the shop tomorrow to ask them to help me with simple things like making sure I'm properly inflating my tires, etc...

Thanks you guys,
Tim
roadnoob412 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 05:10 PM
  #2  
capwater
Senior Member
 
capwater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Quahog, RI
Posts: 1,509

Bikes: Giant TCR Comps, Cdale R5000, Klein Q-Pro, Litespeed Siena, Piasano 105, Redline Conquest Pro, Voodoo Bizango, Fuji Aloha

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Nothing wrong with the tire, tube or pressure. Check the tire, you could have picked up some glass from the road. Maybe also pull the tire and check that the rim tape is properly seated. People get flats, fact of life.
capwater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 05:14 PM
  #3  
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,321

Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
1) What is the pressure you are pumping up your tires to?
2) What caused the puncture? Rim tape? Bad valve hole? Outside puncture from debris? Snakebite?

Inspecting the tire/tube tells you a lot of things and possible solutions.
operator is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 05:18 PM
  #4  
zonatandem
Senior Member
 
zonatandem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 11,019

Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
We run Maxxis Re-Fuse tires on our tandem, 700x25. Do we get flats? Sure.
If you don't want flats, don't ride . . . they are a fact of life!
Be a bit more consious of where your ride on the road, avoid debris/potholes. Check tires for cuts, etc.
Good luck!
zonatandem is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 05:21 PM
  #5  
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Posts: 11,619
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
I got a new bike and took it to a rails-to-trails for one of my first rides. I came back with two flats and thought "Uh Oh! Problems ahead!" But I fixed those and haven't had another flat since. So don't assume that you're going to have a flat every 100 miles.

(On my two flats, I think one was improper mounting, where the tube was pinched in between the rim and the tire. Other one appeared to be a sticker.)
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 06:08 PM
  #6  
roadnoob412
Ad astra per aspera.
Thread Starter
 
roadnoob412's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 185

Bikes: '08 Electra Boney Finger, '08 Cannondale R5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for all the votes of confidence, guys. It's just frustrating I guess right out of the gate to get a flat. I think I was more frustrated with the fact that I carry a spare tube, patches and a CO2 inflator and a couple cartridges, but for some reason, the stupid inflator wouldn't work. I had everything I needed and couldn't use it. I realized the inflater had a schrader adapter in it, so when I got home, I took it out and it still doesn't work. Supposedly you put it on the valve and turn a quarter turn making sure to keep the cartridge upright, but no matter what I did, it wouldn't work.


BTW - I patched up the tube at home - seems to be good as new. Hopefully the morning will tell the same tale.

-Tim
Pearland, TX
roadnoob412 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 06:24 PM
  #7  
AndrewP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Montreal
Posts: 6,521

Bikes: Peugeot Hybrid, Minelli Hybrid

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Did you check the inside of the tire to find the thing that caused the flat, before you put in the spare. You can wipe a Kleenex around to find if it catches on anything. At your weight 25 mm wide tires will be less susceptible to pinch flats, and ones with kevlar belts resist punctures better, but flats happen.
AndrewP is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 07:03 PM
  #8  
Sheldon Brown
Gone, but not forgotten
 
Sheldon Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Newtonville, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,301

Bikes: See: http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Originally Posted by roadnoob412 View Post
...I went out for a ride today to get a few hours in the saddle. About halfway into my ride, I felt my rear wheel go down.

Each time I ride, I put air in my tires and inflate to 110psi per my Topeak JoeBlow pump. I ride the same route almost all the time, and I have to say, I'm not a 'petite' guy at 6'1" and 250lbs. I counted on having to replace tires more often due to my size, but am I doing something wrong? Should I be putting more/less air in my tires? I had the same issue with my MTB and was at a point where I was ready to give up. I really don't want to do that, as I love riding and have way too much invested in this, both physically and financially.

The bike came with Maxxis Fuse Foldable, 700 X 23C tires
Nothing can be generalized based on a single flat, especially since you failed to mention what _caused_ the flat.

I will say that it's silly for a person as heavy as you or I to be riding such super-skinny tires unless you're actually racing.

If you get _repeates_ flats, you may need to change something with your equipment, pressure or riding style, but one flat means basically nothing...these things just happen.

Getting occasional flats is a fact of life. If you're properly equipped, it shouldn't take you more than 10-15 minutes to fix a simple flat.

It would probably be worth your while to read my Flat Tires page: http://sheldonbrown.com/flats

Sheldon "Tssssssssss..." Brown
Sheldon Brown is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 07:05 PM
  #9  
Portis
Banned.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Home alone
Posts: 6,020

Bikes: Trek 4300 X 2. Trek 1000, Trek 6000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Flat tires are a part of cycling. Sometimes a major part sometimes a very, very minor part. Patch the tube, check the tire and ride on. The only things i have found that matter are:

1. Slime. Great in mountain bike tires. Prevents many flat tires but not all.

2. Continental road tires. Since i switched to continental tires several years ago, i haven't had a single flat on my road bike. I had many on other tires i used before that. In fact i think continental has the hardest tread compound of any of them. I prefer Continental on ALL of my bikes.
Portis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 07:46 PM
  #10  
Wino Ryder
"Purgatory Central"
 
Wino Ryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: beautiful "Cypress Gardens" florida
Posts: 1,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=roadnoob4

The bike came with Maxxis Fuse Foldable, 700 X 23C tires and what I'm guessing are standard tubes. Is it possible I could run a different tire and tubes that would help? I know most of you are thinking, 'Maybe if your big *** would just lose some weight it wouldn't be a problem.'

Thanks you guys,
Tim[/QUOTE]



First off, you're thinking and worrying too much about this. I'm also about your weight and have ridden 23's for years. Like the other posters, flats happen to everybody, so really all you can do is keep your tire pressure up and pay attention where you're riding. I say pump those Maxxis tires up to the recomended pressure, avoid anything you see on the road, and give it another try. If you experience still more flats, then maybe its time to try out a more durable tire. I use to get a lot of flats too on my old Conti Grand Prix's, and when I switched to Conti 'Gatorskins' I did'nt get near as many flats. The last set I rode, were Vittoria 'Rubino Pros' and I did'nt have a flat on them for 2000 miles. So there's a lot of good tires out there that may be better than the Maxxis tires you're running.

Also, dont start thinking that your weight is the sole culprit behind your flats. I mean, granted, rider weight will always be a factor, but then again you could weigh 200 lbs or less and still have problems flatting, even under the same circumstances.

you'll be fine
Wino Ryder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-08, 08:54 PM
  #11  
roadnoob412
Ad astra per aspera.
Thread Starter
 
roadnoob412's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 185

Bikes: '08 Electra Boney Finger, '08 Cannondale R5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did make sure the tire was free of whatever caused the flat before fixing everything. I didn't use a kleenex, but that is a good idea. I always check the tire as well as the rim and rim strip when I change a tire, but all of my experience comes from years of riding MTB's, not road bikes. I did use a glueless patch, and about 4 hours later it seems to be holding air just fine still. I've obviously been doing a ton of reading this evening on flat protection, and I'm thinking that tire liners are not the way to go. Instead, I think I'll invest in some heavy duty tubes or Slime Lite tubes. Hopefully that will do the trick. If anyone has any advice on these things either way that'd be great too...

I did verify that it looked like a puncture is in fact what took me down. I found a pinhole in the tire and a pinhole in the tube.

-Tim
roadnoob412 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-08, 09:18 PM
  #12  
waldowales
Old Fogy
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Murray, Utah
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IMHO glueless patches are temporary. Use a glue on patch if you want it to stay.
waldowales is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-08, 09:26 PM
  #13  
roadnoob412
Ad astra per aspera.
Thread Starter
 
roadnoob412's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 185

Bikes: '08 Electra Boney Finger, '08 Cannondale R5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Gotcha - so that's two votes for GLUED patches. I saw the glueless ones and figured we'd made some scientific breakthroughs from my days as a kid where I inevitably used to glue my fingers to the tube as well. Haha.... I should have known.

I think I should replace the tub altogether before the Frost 50 anyway...

Thanks guys!!
-Tim
roadnoob412 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-08, 09:33 PM
  #14  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,069

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Whenever I hear of a brand new bike getting flat tires I suspect bad rim strips. If the hole is on the inside circumference of your inner tube, that's it!

Remove your tire and tube and check the rim strip. What you are looking for is the tiniest crescent of spoke hole that's uncovered. Many new bikes come with stretchy plastic rim strops that migrate away from the spoke holes. My recommendation is to replace the OEM plastic strips with 17mm Velox.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 09:57 AM
  #15  
lukeC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
whats the problem - you got 100 miles out of it before you got a flat!!

the other day I finished fixing up a 'new' (2nd hand bike) put brand new tires and tubes on and went for a ride. about 10 meters down the road I hit a bit of glass that went straight through the tire and into the tube. 10 meters!! i was quite pissed.

but since patching it I've not had any more punctures - 2-3 months later.
lukeC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 11:29 AM
  #16  
lgraba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown View Post
Nothing can be generalized based on a single flat, especially since you failed to mention what _caused_ the flat.

I will say that it's silly for a person as heavy as you or I to be riding such super-skinny tires unless you're actually racing.

If you get _repeates_ flats, you may need to change something with your equipment, pressure or riding style, but one flat means basically nothing...these things just happen.

Getting occasional flats is a fact of life. If you're properly equipped, it shouldn't take you more than 10-15 minutes to fix a simple flat.

It would probably be worth your while to read my Flat Tires page: http://sheldonbrown.com/flats

Sheldon "Tssssssssss..." Brown
I have a question about that: I currently use 700x25 Armadillos (great puncture resistance!) and I am looking to buy a CAAD9 such as the OP is using. Will the clearances on the CAAD9 permit the use of a 700x25? When I used these tires on my old 1989 Trek 1200, they fit, but in wet conditions, I could sometimes hear the grit picked up by the tires getting scraped off against brake bridges if I was out of the saddle and peddling hard. This caused no harm and would be acceptable to me, but I want to know that the option of 700x25 on a CAAD9 is even possible.
lgraba is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 11:35 AM
  #17  
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Whenever I hear of a brand new bike getting flat tires I suspect bad rim strips. If the hole is on the inside circumference of your inner tube, that's it!

Remove your tire and tube and check the rim strip. What you are looking for is the tiniest crescent of spoke hole that's uncovered. Many new bikes come with stretchy plastic rim strops that migrate away from the spoke holes. My recommendation is to replace the OEM plastic strips with 17mm Velox.
+1
Velox rim tape is your friend.

Nothing wrong with 700 x 23 tires at your weight although I think 25's may be better. I would also suggest a bit higher pressure, maybe 120 psi if your tires are designed for that much.

From what I've read Slime tubes or liners will not work well with road bike tires.

A good way to avoid flats is to stay out of grass and weeds at all times. In the southwestern and western part of the U.S. goathead and sand burrs are a particular problem for cyclists. In parking lots and rest areas I've learned to carry my bike to the pavement instead of rolling it.
Al
Al1943 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 11:42 AM
  #18  
edzo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
send me $500 bucks
and i'll call off my flat gnomes
edzo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 02:22 PM
  #19  
jroth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, if you get a flat, it's time for a new bike. I think that's what you do.
jroth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-08, 03:07 PM
  #20  
Thumpic 
Senior Member
 
Thumpic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,912
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
you can fix a flat?.........dang!
__________________
Thumpic....

Green is the new "CHEAP"
Thumpic is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-08, 10:08 AM
  #21  
roadnoob412
Ad astra per aspera.
Thread Starter
 
roadnoob412's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pearland, TX
Posts: 185

Bikes: '08 Electra Boney Finger, '08 Cannondale R5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I did go ahead and get some new tires - Armadillo All Condition tires. My LBS recommended them along with Velox for the rims. I've finished the front tire and just need to do the back. I'm hoping all will be well afterwards.

Edzo - you can KEEP your flat gnomes....

Last edited by roadnoob412; 01-24-08 at 11:51 AM.
roadnoob412 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-08, 01:40 PM
  #22  
Mr. Underbridge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,369

Bikes: 2003 Giant OCR2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
110psi + 23mm + 250lbs + pothole = pinch flat.

I run my 25s at 110 psi, and I'm 150lbs.
Mr. Underbridge is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-08, 02:09 PM
  #23  
mike-on-da-bike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i dont ever get flatst i ran extra tape around rims also made up sleeves from old tube to go around new tube,cant beat this method,i repeat i never get flats,been over glass bindies sharp rocks.
mike-on-da-bike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-08, 02:18 PM
  #24  
dmac49
Senior Member
 
dmac49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Outside..somewhere
Posts: 433

Bikes: Fuji, Specialized, Cannondale, Columbia

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I run 110 in Gator 28's and I'm in the same ball park as you. Maybe 235-240. Any number of things could have happened. From a bad tube to , pressure, etc etc. With one flat I would just do a good check of the rim, tape and tire. I'm not sure I'd be riding anything less than 25's though. But that's just me.
dmac49 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-08, 07:29 AM
  #25  
Carusoswi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown View Post
I will say that it's silly for a person as heavy as you or I to be riding such super-skinny tires unless you're actually racing.
One with your credentials has earned the right to say whatever . . . but, with all due respect, I see nothing silly about the OP's use of skinny tires. Their advantages should benefit his riding as much as they would anyone else. Their disadvantages should degrade his riding no more than they would anyone else.

I'm not 250, but, I'm not my former 160, either. I ride 23's and would feel as though I was short changing my experience if I used anything wider - I love that feeling of almost skating down the road, and I like what I perceive to be a quieter, firmer ride.

Since it appears that a penetration caused this flat, there is probably little the OP could have done to prevent it.

I am not familiar with his tire brand, but, when I shop for tires, I do spend some time talking with shop owners/employees who seem knowledgeable about tire characteristics before purchasing. Most of the time their advice concerning trade-offs between performance and reliability has been accurate and most helpful . . . and I will say that an encouraging number of less knowledgeable sales help have willingly referred me to someone else in the shop who "really knows about tires."

I don't mind trying different brands/types, and the variety of choices is surprisingly wide. Do you want a light tire, the most puncture resistant tank type tire (Armadillo's that I used to run are very resistant to the sort of puncture that you experienced, but, over time, I've seen stuff get into them, cause a surface separation, and gradually that inner belt of whatever gives up and you have a chronic point of weakness . . . at which point, I buy new)?

Armadillos (and similar . . . I use that brand name rather generically, they may make a full line of tires including light weight, less puncture resistant tires . . . I don't know) are heavy tires. You should experience fewer flats - you may or may not notice the heaviness.

I ran some really lightweight Schwalbes (don't recall the quality name) that felt really neat until I realized that I could hardly go anywhere without having a flat along the way. That started to get really old for me, so I moved to a tire that the shop called a training tire . . . in their words, not a boat anchor, but much less likely to flat under normal road conditions.

As others have said, it depends where you ride. You can try to be careful, but, if like me, you like to get out and ride long distances on the road, exploring new territory and such, it's pretty hard to be careful because there are other issues of care that are far more important.

I like to ride a stretch of road between Stockton, NJ and Frenchtown, NJ, along the Delaware River . . . the road is a wide two-laner with shoulders on each side nearly as wide as the traffic lanes. The surface is in like new condition, but you can see the sun glistening off all the teeny little pieces of glass along the way.

They seem so small and consistently strewn that I wonder sometimes if they aren't part of the road surface, itself. Invariably, when I ride that road (and I ride it often), I can count on the surface of my tires to get chewed up a bit. I could count on my Schwalbes to allow a glass puncture somewhere along the way.

Since moving to my present tire, Michelin Pro Race "Service Course" (whatever that means), I, personally, have not experienced a single flat in the last 3500 miles of riding. I am certain part of that is just luck, but it looks as though this tire is a good compromise for me, and, not being a racer, although I feel good on super light tires, I don't really benefit from them.

Going so long without a flat has been a pleasant experience for me.

Last week, as I was leaving for my normal Saturday ride, I foolishly left my saddle bag in the garage and locked myself out of the house - no keys, no tools, no phone. In the past, I would have gone to the nearest public sanctuary (library, etc.) to hang out and stay warm for the day until the Mrs. was back to open up the domicile. Last week, with confidence (or fool heartiness) I proceed on my 80-mile jaunt with relatively little worry about flatting.

Fortunately, I was right about not flatting, and riding without three pounds of pump, tubes, (dang, what else must I have in there that makes that bag so heavy?) was refreshing. Riding with no plastic or cash was not so much fun, as I had no food or liquid along. I was not feeling so well when I got back after five hours in the saddle . . . sacked out on the couch not to be heard from again until Sunday morning.

For me, the OP's pressure is on the low side - whether or not that contributes to his flats, I cannot say. I pump my tires to 140 psi regularly which I know is higher than most. But I like that firm ride and the psychological lift it gives me ("knowing" in my mind how much more freely my bike will roll down the road, LOL).

My high pressure probably eliminates pinch flats - doubt if it is helpful for other types. Do what works for you, and may the road rise up to greet you through many a happy ride.

Caruso
Carusoswi is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service