Italian bottom bracket question
#1
Just ride :-D
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 572
Bikes: Anchor RFX-8, Pedal Force QS-2, Bertoni Nuovitalia, Performance X-203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Italian bottom bracket question
I'm in the process of rebuilding a 1988 Bertoni road bike and am a little stuck with the upgrade of the bottom bracket. I was told I could put in a Shimano Octalink cassette BB to go with a new Octalink crankset as long as I got Italian threading (70mm). I got the new Italian BB, but it doesn't seem to want to thread into the shell :confused: . Anyone have any experience like this or suggestions?? Any help appreciated, thanks!!
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 1,148
Bikes: Seven Axiom Ti, Trek 620, Masi cylocross (steel). Masi Souleville 8spd, Fat Chance Mtn. (steel), Schwinn Triple Bar cruiser, Mazi Speciale Fix/single, Schwinn Typhoon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Hmm?, Suggestions- ( some may be too obvious)
Do some comparitive measurements with width and inside diameter of English or Italian BBs you may have on hand to determine if it is really Italian ( I've run into frames with Italian names and English BBs) Italians are wider on both dimensions
If it is the left hand side you're having trouble with, thread it right handed ( Italian BBs are theaded right hand on BOTH sides)
Did you receive the "right " BB?
Have your LBS "chase" (and "face "( see below)) the threads on the BB shell
Grease the threads on both the bb and bb shell, ( Shimano may suggest Silicone Seal as they did in years past on their Cartridge bbs for Mtn bikes)
Check for thread damage and use a jewelers file to correct, or go to LBS ( as above)
Have your LBS install it, a very good idea if your BB shell hasn't been "faced" ( a special tool is used to cut or re-cut (chase) the bb threads and to machine the outside edges of the bb to make sure they are completely parallel and paint free) with many of the newer bbs this is not as critical as it once was because the outside edges of the shell are no longer used as part of the mounting surfaces. ( I'm not familiar enough with your bb to know if this is the case)
Ride Far
Pat
Do some comparitive measurements with width and inside diameter of English or Italian BBs you may have on hand to determine if it is really Italian ( I've run into frames with Italian names and English BBs) Italians are wider on both dimensions
If it is the left hand side you're having trouble with, thread it right handed ( Italian BBs are theaded right hand on BOTH sides)
Did you receive the "right " BB?
Have your LBS "chase" (and "face "( see below)) the threads on the BB shell
Grease the threads on both the bb and bb shell, ( Shimano may suggest Silicone Seal as they did in years past on their Cartridge bbs for Mtn bikes)
Check for thread damage and use a jewelers file to correct, or go to LBS ( as above)
Have your LBS install it, a very good idea if your BB shell hasn't been "faced" ( a special tool is used to cut or re-cut (chase) the bb threads and to machine the outside edges of the bb to make sure they are completely parallel and paint free) with many of the newer bbs this is not as critical as it once was because the outside edges of the shell are no longer used as part of the mounting surfaces. ( I'm not familiar enough with your bb to know if this is the case)
Ride Far
Pat
Last edited by pat5319; 09-22-03 at 11:26 AM.
#3
Just ride :-D
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 572
Bikes: Anchor RFX-8, Pedal Force QS-2, Bertoni Nuovitalia, Performance X-203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally posted by pat5319
Hmm?, Suggestions- ( some may be too obvious)
Do some comparitive measurements with width and inside diameter of English or Italian BBs you may have on hand to determine if it is really Italian ( I've run into frames with Italian names and English BBs) Italians are wider on both dimensions
If it is the left hand side you're having trouble with, thread it right handed ( Italian BBs are theaded right hand on BOTH sides)
Hmm?, Suggestions- ( some may be too obvious)
Do some comparitive measurements with width and inside diameter of English or Italian BBs you may have on hand to determine if it is really Italian ( I've run into frames with Italian names and English BBs) Italians are wider on both dimensions
If it is the left hand side you're having trouble with, thread it right handed ( Italian BBs are theaded right hand on BOTH sides)
It seems that the threads are fine since the old BB cups thread in and out very smoothly. Even though the threads on the original cups seem to be the same size and count as on the new Shimano BB cartridge, my fear is that Bertoni used some non-standard size or threading. Have you ever heard of that happening?
(Original BB spindle is stamped "Ofmega", so I'm asuming the cups are also Ofmega.)
#4
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1392 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times
in
836 Posts
My Bianchi has Ofmega cups, and they are Italian-threaded. I can almost guarantee yours are Italian-standard, as well. (Italian BBs are really weird: 36mm diameter, 24 threads per inch, and Whitworth groove angle. Not even Sheldon can tell me how they ended up with these dimensions! Perhaps Shimano cut their cup grooves at 60 degrees instead of 55, in which case you should be able to force a fit, as long as you promise never to convert back to the other thread pitch. This was also the reason we were told that a strong rider should never to put an Italian-threaded freewheel on an English-threaded hub, or vice-versa.)
By the way, that extra mm of diameter in Italian BB shells guarantees that any other BB cups, French, Swiss, or English, all of which are 35mm in diameter, will slide in and out without seriously engaging the threads at all.
I had a problem similar to yours with my (English-threaded) Austrian bike after I got it back from repainting (see classic/vintage thread for a couple of pictures of the new paint job). The (self-tightening/left-threaded) fixed cup had put up one hellacious fight on the way out and did likewise on the way back in, so a bit of thread-chasing was in order.
By the way, that extra mm of diameter in Italian BB shells guarantees that any other BB cups, French, Swiss, or English, all of which are 35mm in diameter, will slide in and out without seriously engaging the threads at all.
I had a problem similar to yours with my (English-threaded) Austrian bike after I got it back from repainting (see classic/vintage thread for a couple of pictures of the new paint job). The (self-tightening/left-threaded) fixed cup had put up one hellacious fight on the way out and did likewise on the way back in, so a bit of thread-chasing was in order.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
It is not unusual to have to fight the cups in on the new cartridge BBs. But if you feel uncomfortable doing it, have the LBS do it. There may be a burr in a thread that is causing a problem. You'll be able to tell this by removing the cartridge and inspecting the threads for damage when you feel unusual resistance. If you can't clear it up by running the original cup in and out a few times with a lubricant, have it tapped to clean the threads. If there is no thread damage, you should be able to work it in with out a worry. Just tighten , remove, inspect and retighten as often as necessary to avoid any damage.
Bertoni's were an Italian import by Ben Lawee Imports in CA. They would be pretty standard stuff with regards to threads.
Bertoni's were an Italian import by Ben Lawee Imports in CA. They would be pretty standard stuff with regards to threads.
#7
Just ride :-D
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 572
Bikes: Anchor RFX-8, Pedal Force QS-2, Bertoni Nuovitalia, Performance X-203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally posted by don d.
It is not unusual to have to fight the cups in on the new cartridge BBs. But if you feel uncomfortable doing it, have the LBS do it. There may be a burr in a thread that is causing a problem. You'll be able to tell this by removing the cartridge and inspecting the threads for damage when you feel unusual resistance. If you can't clear it up by running the original cup in and out a few times with a lubricant, have it tapped to clean the threads.
It is not unusual to have to fight the cups in on the new cartridge BBs. But if you feel uncomfortable doing it, have the LBS do it. There may be a burr in a thread that is causing a problem. You'll be able to tell this by removing the cartridge and inspecting the threads for damage when you feel unusual resistance. If you can't clear it up by running the original cup in and out a few times with a lubricant, have it tapped to clean the threads.
#9
Just ride :-D
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 572
Bikes: Anchor RFX-8, Pedal Force QS-2, Bertoni Nuovitalia, Performance X-203
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally posted by Dave Stohler
Just a thought: was the BB shell perhaps ovalized along the way? That would certainly make installing any BB hard.
Just a thought: was the BB shell perhaps ovalized along the way? That would certainly make installing any BB hard.