Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Can Going from 12T to 11T Cause Chain to be Too Long?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Can Going from 12T to 11T Cause Chain to be Too Long?

Old 01-26-08, 11:08 PM
  #1  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can Going from 12T to 11T Cause Chain to be Too Long?

Bought a special rear wheel for my trainer and converted the 12-27 cassette into an 11-27 so I could get a higher gear for climbing intervals on the trainer. Everything is adjusted great when the bike is in the stand, but when I'm in the big front and 11T rear the chain keeps skipping to the point where I can't use the 11T. Could it be the chain length? When I swap back to the wheel with the 12-27 it works great. Any other ideas?
NRRider is offline  
Old 01-26-08, 11:18 PM
  #2  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,771
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1454 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 40 Posts
Do you use a Connex chain link?
Rowan is offline  
Old 01-26-08, 11:24 PM
  #3  
Jed19
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I don't think there should be any problem in chain being too long going from 12t to 11t. I currently interchange between a (12-25)t Shimano Ultegra cassette and an Ultegra (12-27)t cassette without changing chain length.

Regards,
Jed19 is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 12:34 AM
  #4  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Do you use a Connex chain link?
Yes. Por que?
NRRider is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 12:41 AM
  #5  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,771
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1454 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 40 Posts
Remove it and reverse the direction of the link (but don't change their sides of the chain). Connex links have a reputation for skipping on the 11T cog if they aren't put on in the "correct" direction. By removing it, reversing its direction and reconnecting, you should solve your problem.

BTW, it's "pourquoi?"
Rowan is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 01:00 AM
  #6  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Remove it and reverse the direction of the link (but don't change their sides of the chain). Connex links have a reputation for skipping on the 11T cog if they aren't put on in the "correct" direction. By removing it, reversing its direction and reconnecting, you should solve your problem.

BTW, it's "pourquoi?"
Perhaps that's how they say it in France. I'm from LA and we habla espanol here.

Thanks for the head's up on reversing the links. Never heard that one. Will try it next time I'm on the trainer and see if it does the trick.
NRRider is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 08:49 AM
  #7  
operator
cab horn
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,353

Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
If it's not the link, i'm going to wager worn out chain on new cog. Or some other variation (since you didn't tell us exactly how you converted that cassette).
operator is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 09:49 AM
  #8  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by operator View Post
If it's not the link, i'm going to wager worn out chain on new cog. Or some other variation (since you didn't tell us exactly how you converted that cassette).
Chain is in good shape, at least according to the Park chain checker.
Converted the cassette by removing the 16T. Using the special 11T lockring.
NRRider is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 11:51 AM
  #9  
nitropowered
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Posts: 5,104

Bikes: Custom Custom Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dont you want to be using a close ratio cluster on the trainer? I use a 12-23 on my trainer wheel (12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23) I think 11's are useless on a trainer, just dial up the resistance
nitropowered is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 12:35 PM
  #10  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by nitropowered View Post
dont you want to be using a close ratio cluster on the trainer? I use a 12-23 on my trainer wheel (12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23) I think 11's are useless on a trainer, just dial up the resistance
If I didn't have a compact then I would agree with you. The 12T isn't high enough on the climbing (low RPM) intervals with my 50T front big ring. End up with RPMs too high for my HR (at least per Chris Carmichael). I can't adjust the resistance on my trainer (Kurt Kinetic)--only way to increase resistance is to increase RPM of the wheel.
NRRider is offline  
Old 01-27-08, 08:21 PM
  #11  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
With the 11t cog you must use the special 11t lockring. If you use the standard lockring the chain is not able to seat.

Al
I used the special 11T lockring (see post #8).
NRRider is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 06:29 AM
  #12  
Bobby Lex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Remove it and reverse the direction of the link (but don't change their sides of the chain). Connex links have a reputation for skipping on the 11T cog if they aren't put on in the "correct" direction. By removing it, reversing its direction and reconnecting, you should solve your problem.
+1. Been there. Done that.

Also, Wipperman makes a Shimano 10-speed specific quik-link if you're running Shimano 10-speed stuff on your rig.

Bob
Bobby Lex is offline  
Old 01-28-08, 09:00 AM
  #13  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bobby Lex View Post
+1. Been there. Done that.

Also, Wipperman makes a Shimano 10-speed specific quik-link if you're running Shimano 10-speed stuff on your rig.

Bob
Thanks Bob. I'm running the link made specifically for Shimano 10 speed. Switched it around yesterday and will give it a try on the trainer today. Will report back with results.
NRRider is offline  
Old 02-01-08, 08:52 PM
  #14  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks to Rowan

Just to follow up, Rowan nailed it on the head. Reversed the links while keeping them on the same side. Been on the trainer twice since and no more skipping.

Thanks Rowan!!!
NRRider is offline  
Old 02-01-08, 09:27 PM
  #15  
Sheldon Brown
Gone, but not forgotten
 
Sheldon Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Newtonville, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,301

Bikes: See: https://sheldonbrown.org/bicycles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by NRRider View Post
Bought a special rear wheel for my trainer and converted the 12-27 cassette into an 11-27 so I could get a higher gear for climbing intervals on the trainer. Everything is adjusted great when the bike is in the stand, but when I'm in the big front and 11T rear the chain keeps skipping to the point where I can't use the 11T. Could it be the chain length? When I swap back to the wheel with the 12-27 it works great. Any other ideas?
Nothing to do with chain length.

My bet is that the lockring is the culprit. Shimano makes special lockrings to go with 11 tooth sprockets, the outer flange has a slightly smaller diameter.

If you use a "standard" lockring with an 11 tooth sprocket, the chain side plates bump into the edge of the lockring, so the chain can't quite bed down into the valleys between the teeth of the sprocket.

Sheldon "Lockrings" Brown
Code:
+------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I’ll be appearing in the chorus of the Sudbury Savoyards’ |
|   Production of Gilbert & Sullivan’s Yeomen of the Guard   |
|    Sudbury, Massachusetts, February 22 through March 1     |
|               https://sudburysavoyards.org                  |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Sheldon Brown is offline  
Old 02-02-08, 12:40 PM
  #16  
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 6,924

Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The 11T lockring will have "11T" embossed on it near the Shimano labeling. The slightly larger 12T ring has no special indication. Otherwise they're hard to tell apart. It's worth double-checking.
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline  
Old 02-03-08, 10:36 AM
  #17  
NRRider
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 685
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DMF View Post
The 11T lockring will have "11T" embossed on it near the Shimano labeling. The slightly larger 12T ring has no special indication. Otherwise they're hard to tell apart. It's worth double-checking.
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown View Post
Nothing to do with chain length.

My bet is that the lockring is the culprit. Shimano makes special lockrings to go with 11 tooth sprockets, the outer flange has a slightly smaller diameter.

If you use a "standard" lockring with an 11 tooth sprocket, the chain side plates bump into the edge of the lockring, so the chain can't quite bed down into the valleys between the teeth of the sprocket.

Sheldon "Lockrings" Brown
Code:
+------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I’ll be appearing in the chorus of the Sudbury Savoyards’ |
|   Production of Gilbert & Sullivan’s Yeomen of the Guard   |
|    Sudbury, Massachusetts, February 22 through March 1     |
|               https://sudburysavoyards.org                  |
+------------------------------------------------------------+

Thanks guys but I was running the correct lock ring per post 8. FYI, problem was solved by reversing the Wipperman links per post 14. Thanks anyway.
NRRider is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.