Fixie angst...
01-31-08, 02:47 PM
#51
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NO..R U a Snob?
Dude, style points....SS/Fix speed is a grerat way to ride and enjoy the bike experience. As a hard core due you should be excited for anyone wanted to ride anything...
Dude, it is a BIKE! not status symbol. For those who have the time & $ to getthe very best Bravo..for the rest of us Hey MAn it 's all good!
Dude, it is a BIKE! not status symbol. For those who have the time & $ to getthe very best Bravo..for the rest of us Hey MAn it 's all good!
01-31-08, 02:57 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
,I consider riding brakeless to be basically a silly fad, not quite a silly as wearing baseball caps backward, but it is basically a fashion statement.
01-31-08, 03:31 PM
#53
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I have tried riding a fixie for the first time this winter and I never thought it would be so much fun and feel so safe. Mine is a fleamarket midlevel 531 Crescent roadbike from 73. Has room for my Nokian 106's and I have no qualms about converting it although it had just been ridden a few hundred miles when I bought it. It really is nothing special. I have been considering fixing my Gianni Motta Personal that also has a 120 mm rear end, but now a young enthusiast wants to buy it and use it as it is. It looks just like the earliest Motta that is on the Bulgier website and probably deserves better than ending up a fixie.
01-31-08, 10:43 PM
#54
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I wish a company would come out with a $30 fixie frame, then all these cool old bikes will finally be safe from destruction. The view that "these bikes are at least being used" doesn't make any sense to me. If the bike has no identity what's the point of choosing a nice bike to begin with? It's makes no difference once it's all filed down and repainted. You could use anything at that point, even an old Free Spirit.,,,,BD
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01-31-08, 11:40 PM
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Bikesdirect is selling a frame for like $170. Everyone and their mom owns it: Mercier Kilo TT. $300 complete bike.
02-04-08, 12:08 PM
#56
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Thread Starter
Lemme tweak this thread back on track. Or at least try.
If I implied stereotyping, of which I am occasionally guilty, please forgive me this time. Any bike being ridden is a good bike. I know a guy who rides a tall bike around town with no brakes AND a freewheel. I applaud his courage and will miss him when he is gone. But I would never tell him what bike to ride.
My OP was simply this: Does it bug you at all (bike shop employees) when someone turns a beautiful vintage bike into a fixie for whatever reason.
That's it. Give an answer based on emotion - pretty much yes or no, with line or two of commentary if need be. Don't try to rationalize your emotions just this once.
I am sure if I posted this under "Classic and Vintage" or "Single Speed or Fixed Gear" headings I would get a wide array of opinions. And maybe I will after this string runs it's course. For now, bike shop employee's emotional responses please....
If I implied stereotyping, of which I am occasionally guilty, please forgive me this time. Any bike being ridden is a good bike. I know a guy who rides a tall bike around town with no brakes AND a freewheel. I applaud his courage and will miss him when he is gone. But I would never tell him what bike to ride.
My OP was simply this: Does it bug you at all (bike shop employees) when someone turns a beautiful vintage bike into a fixie for whatever reason.
That's it. Give an answer based on emotion - pretty much yes or no, with line or two of commentary if need be. Don't try to rationalize your emotions just this once.
I am sure if I posted this under "Classic and Vintage" or "Single Speed or Fixed Gear" headings I would get a wide array of opinions. And maybe I will after this string runs it's course. For now, bike shop employee's emotional responses please....
02-04-08, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I am sure if I posted this under "Classic and Vintage" or "Single Speed or Fixed Gear" headings I would get a wide array of opinions. And maybe I will after this string runs it's course. For now, bike shop employee's emotional responses please....
I feel the same way about cars. A really rare - all numbers matching car is actually less attractive to me because I'd feel bad giving it the "restro-mod" treatment. I'd rather have a less collectable car to play with.
02-04-08, 02:35 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
Skiddability (is that a word?) is mainly determined by weight distribution. Most normal bikes have about a 55/45 rear/front weight distribution.
For skidding contests, where the idea is to make the longest skid, the rider puts his/her weight as far forward as possible to reduce the weight on the rear wheel.
So, if your primary objective is to make it take longer for your bike to stop when you lock up the rear wheel, a track bike might be best. However, for riding in traffic, it would seem to me that a longer stopping distance is undesirable. Basically anything that makes skidding easier also means that the skid will be less effective at slowing the bike down. If you've ever ridden a tandem without a stoker, and tried to stop with the rear brake you have experienced the reductio ad absurdum of this, as it is easy to lock up the rear wheel, but it hardly slows the tandem down at all since there's so little traction.
Maybe "condone" wasn't quite the word you meant referring to my preference for fixed gear brake use. I did try riding brakeless for a while, back before it was fashionable. I found that it was a lot less fun because I had to be super-vigilant in traffic in case some cager did something unexpected and I might have to stop relatively suddenly. I found that I had to often keep my speed artificially low to make up for the lack of a good brake.
Since there were no style points to be had back then from going brakeless, I eventually re-installed the front brake, and found the bike much more fun to ride.
I consider riding brakeless to be basically a silly fad, not quite a silly as wearing baseball caps backward, but it is basically a fashion statement.
To me, the essence of cycling is in the _going_ not the stopping.
Sheldon "Front Brake, Road Geometry" Brown
For skidding contests, where the idea is to make the longest skid, the rider puts his/her weight as far forward as possible to reduce the weight on the rear wheel.
So, if your primary objective is to make it take longer for your bike to stop when you lock up the rear wheel, a track bike might be best. However, for riding in traffic, it would seem to me that a longer stopping distance is undesirable. Basically anything that makes skidding easier also means that the skid will be less effective at slowing the bike down. If you've ever ridden a tandem without a stoker, and tried to stop with the rear brake you have experienced the reductio ad absurdum of this, as it is easy to lock up the rear wheel, but it hardly slows the tandem down at all since there's so little traction.
Maybe "condone" wasn't quite the word you meant referring to my preference for fixed gear brake use. I did try riding brakeless for a while, back before it was fashionable. I found that it was a lot less fun because I had to be super-vigilant in traffic in case some cager did something unexpected and I might have to stop relatively suddenly. I found that I had to often keep my speed artificially low to make up for the lack of a good brake.
Since there were no style points to be had back then from going brakeless, I eventually re-installed the front brake, and found the bike much more fun to ride.
I consider riding brakeless to be basically a silly fad, not quite a silly as wearing baseball caps backward, but it is basically a fashion statement.
To me, the essence of cycling is in the _going_ not the stopping.
Sheldon "Front Brake, Road Geometry" Brown
Last edited by andre nickatina; 02-04-08 at 06:15 PM.
02-04-08, 07:00 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Does it bug you at all when someone turns a beautiful vintage bike into a fixie for whatever reason.
,,,,BD
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02-05-08, 10:48 PM
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02-06-08, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by andre nickatina
Sorry it had to end with us debating. I wish it wasn't like this. Gone but not forgotton... RIP Sheldon
02-06-08, 10:44 AM
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Lotus conversion cringe
for the OP question: A. Yes. it does bother me.
Here's why: Lotuses were not large volume sellers in their day, the ones in my shop were mostly the top of the line touring bike with all the bells and whistles including cantis and long wheelbase, a righteous ride for the purpose they were created. From what you describe, you had a perfectly preserved specimen. The fact that someone didn't ride it for the past 20 years doesn't mean it won't be rideable with some new tires, maybe lube the cables and get all the dust off the chain. Bikes live on, and only a fool would throw one of these in the scrap heap or butcher it up from such a state. Better to start with a different, bare frame that has already had some cosmetic history and breathe new life into it.
I thought their (Lotus') frames were quite nice in the lug details, if I remember correctly they were hand painted details there-- far above average in their craftsmanship. Yes they were Japanese but that was in the day when the Japanese had the quality thing nailed down. Not as exotic as a Fuji spline-triple-butted job from a technical standpoint, but very nice in its own right-- especially with the fleur de lis 600 or other top line components they were spec'ed with.
I think doing a Fixie conversion on any old carbon steel (even butted) Panasonic or Fuji Valite or Peugeot is not a crime at all. Chop away, boys! On the older bikes, look for a Schwinn Madison or Schwinn Super Sport, or Univega or older Motobecane or Gitane, and have fun with your update/conversion!
No comment on the side chats on this thread re: skidding, brakes vs. brakeless, other than a HUGE tip o' the hat in memory of our late brother Sheldon Brown, a true legend in our midst, whose passing will cast a long shadow in cyberspace. Thanks for your enthusiasm and basic sensibility we all appreciated over the years. https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/
Here's why: Lotuses were not large volume sellers in their day, the ones in my shop were mostly the top of the line touring bike with all the bells and whistles including cantis and long wheelbase, a righteous ride for the purpose they were created. From what you describe, you had a perfectly preserved specimen. The fact that someone didn't ride it for the past 20 years doesn't mean it won't be rideable with some new tires, maybe lube the cables and get all the dust off the chain. Bikes live on, and only a fool would throw one of these in the scrap heap or butcher it up from such a state. Better to start with a different, bare frame that has already had some cosmetic history and breathe new life into it.
I thought their (Lotus') frames were quite nice in the lug details, if I remember correctly they were hand painted details there-- far above average in their craftsmanship. Yes they were Japanese but that was in the day when the Japanese had the quality thing nailed down. Not as exotic as a Fuji spline-triple-butted job from a technical standpoint, but very nice in its own right-- especially with the fleur de lis 600 or other top line components they were spec'ed with.
I think doing a Fixie conversion on any old carbon steel (even butted) Panasonic or Fuji Valite or Peugeot is not a crime at all. Chop away, boys! On the older bikes, look for a Schwinn Madison or Schwinn Super Sport, or Univega or older Motobecane or Gitane, and have fun with your update/conversion!
No comment on the side chats on this thread re: skidding, brakes vs. brakeless, other than a HUGE tip o' the hat in memory of our late brother Sheldon Brown, a true legend in our midst, whose passing will cast a long shadow in cyberspace. Thanks for your enthusiasm and basic sensibility we all appreciated over the years. https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/
02-06-08, 02:14 PM
#63
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Who ever decided that taking a dremel to a bike and removing cable stops, guides and braze-ons are at all part of a fixed-gear conversion? I think this is one of the most mis-guided viewpoints in all of cycling.
Fixed-gear is about changing out the drivetrain. Nothing less, nothing more. Whatever else you do to your bike - cutting, chopping, different bars, or removing any or all of the brakes - is entirely an afterthought and has nothing to do with converting the bike to a fixed gear.
My Miyata one-ten was probably born as a 7 or 6 speed. I gave it 9 speed Ultegra and ran it like that for a while. Now it's a fixed gear. I have, in a box, all of the original drivetrain stuff and give me an hour and the bike would be completely original again.
Once again I ask. How is making a nice vintage bike's drivetrain fixed gear any less iconoclastic than "upgrading" it with STI shifters and 10 speed Dura Ace?
Fixed-gear is about changing out the drivetrain. Nothing less, nothing more. Whatever else you do to your bike - cutting, chopping, different bars, or removing any or all of the brakes - is entirely an afterthought and has nothing to do with converting the bike to a fixed gear.
My Miyata one-ten was probably born as a 7 or 6 speed. I gave it 9 speed Ultegra and ran it like that for a while. Now it's a fixed gear. I have, in a box, all of the original drivetrain stuff and give me an hour and the bike would be completely original again.
Once again I ask. How is making a nice vintage bike's drivetrain fixed gear any less iconoclastic than "upgrading" it with STI shifters and 10 speed Dura Ace?
02-06-08, 07:49 PM
#64
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I'm a huge fan of riding whatever makes you happy. Fixed = far less maintenance and fewer headaches on a vintage frame. + more injuries.
Perhaps people get badgered by their mates to convert or they're just following a trend. They think a featherweight carbon frame with cruiser parts is going to make them more comfortable. Who cares, so long as they're smiles at the end of the day? I've never understood the pretension in any of it, perhaps it's time a few of us cease thinking that our's is the only way to think or our opinions are correct. I've argued with nearly fifty people about why so and so shouldn't convert their bike and I've argued with twice as many on the merits of fixed conversion. It's not about you, it's about them and I'd gladly do the maintenance or restoration for someone and if they'd like to convert it the next week, so be it. I especially love it when people feel that their friends dress the best and if you do it any differently you're "a stupid hipster" or what have you. Likewise when a load of "hipsters" want to make fun of the jocks, rich, 401ker's, etc. I don't think anyone needs to hear about how the things they like are dumb in another's opinion. That being said, I suppose my way of openly accepting the things I enjoy, no matter the source, is just as flawed. Though, I've been around this world a few times and struggled through culture and language; my findings tend to point toward the notion that aiding others rather than imposing your ideas on them brings you closer to joy.
:End RANT:
Perhaps people get badgered by their mates to convert or they're just following a trend. They think a featherweight carbon frame with cruiser parts is going to make them more comfortable. Who cares, so long as they're smiles at the end of the day? I've never understood the pretension in any of it, perhaps it's time a few of us cease thinking that our's is the only way to think or our opinions are correct. I've argued with nearly fifty people about why so and so shouldn't convert their bike and I've argued with twice as many on the merits of fixed conversion. It's not about you, it's about them and I'd gladly do the maintenance or restoration for someone and if they'd like to convert it the next week, so be it. I especially love it when people feel that their friends dress the best and if you do it any differently you're "a stupid hipster" or what have you. Likewise when a load of "hipsters" want to make fun of the jocks, rich, 401ker's, etc. I don't think anyone needs to hear about how the things they like are dumb in another's opinion. That being said, I suppose my way of openly accepting the things I enjoy, no matter the source, is just as flawed. Though, I've been around this world a few times and struggled through culture and language; my findings tend to point toward the notion that aiding others rather than imposing your ideas on them brings you closer to joy.
:End RANT:
02-06-08, 11:20 PM
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What happens when the fad ends(Yes I believe that's what it is). When the person that just had to have the coolest fixed gear bike on the block quickly loses interest? How many hundreds (or thousands) of bikes will be rendered unrecognizable and unusable for their intended purpose? Some may argue their intended purpose is to be ridden, and you'd be right. There's nothing wrong with them having gears either, is there? There are plenty of no name CrMo frames that vintage bike lovers couldn't care less about. Why does it always seem to be the nicer bikes that get the RD hangers, cable guides, etc..buzzed off?,,,,BD
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02-06-08, 11:45 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
What happens when the fad ends(Yes I believe that's what it is). When the person that just had to have the coolest fixed gear bike on the block quickly loses interest? How many hundreds (or thousands) of bikes will be rendered unrecognizable and unusable for their intended purpose? Some may argue their intended purpose is to be ridden, and you'd be right. There's nothing wrong with them having gears either, is there? There are plenty of no name CrMo frames that vintage bike lovers couldn't care less about. Why does it always seem to be the nicer bikes that get the RD hangers, cable guides, etc..buzzed off?,,,,BD
02-06-08, 11:56 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by muccapazza
Lighten up, Francis. Their intended purpose is to be ridden, which the poor poor lotus in the OP clearly wasn't. Neither was the gitane TDF frame in the attic of a buddy's shop, so he found someone (me) who'ld put it together the way I wanted and ride it again, it rides like butter, baby. I've got geared bikes too that I ride. They're all fun. I really hate that Harley bumper sticker, the one that says" If you have to ask you just don't understand." But it sure rings true in this instance. We aren't gonna convince you and you're not gonna wipe the smiles off our faces or get our fixed gears until you pry them from our cold dead fingies.
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02-07-08, 01:43 AM
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02-07-08, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
What happens when the fad ends(Yes I believe that's what it is). When the person that just had to have the coolest fixed gear bike on the block quickly loses interest? How many hundreds (or thousands) of bikes will be rendered unrecognizable and unusable for their intended purpose? Some may argue their intended purpose is to be ridden, and you'd be right. There's nothing wrong with them having gears either, is there? There are plenty of no name CrMo frames that vintage bike lovers couldn't care less about. Why does it always seem to be the nicer bikes that get the RD hangers, cable guides, etc..buzzed off?,,,,BD
02-07-08, 10:27 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by roadfix
just keep the braze-ons intact.
Muahhh ha ha ha ha.......
looks for outlet...
02-07-08, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nick burns
So just put the derailleurs, shifters, 2nd chainring, and multi speed hub back on. What is that, about an hour or two of work? The vast majority, actually pretty much all, of the conversions I've seen did not have any braze ons removed. It's a non issue.
Most of the ones I see are repainted with latest cool auto paint colors, and all cable and derailleur hangers cut off and/or filed down. I guess we're looking at different bikes. My "derision" stems from the destruction of original frames, regardless of their condition. It has nothing to do with people who ride fixed gear bikes, only the ones who build them in such a way that it destroys the bike's return to originality.,,,,BD
Francis?? IMHO that is name calling. Please grow up.....
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02-07-08, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
It has nothing to do with people who ride fixed gear bikes, only the ones who build them in such a way that it destroys the bike's return to originality.
02-08-08, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikedued
Francis?? IMHO that is name calling. Please grow up.....
Is that directed at me?
02-08-08, 08:10 PM
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Nope, muccapazza. Sorry....BD
I've spoken my opinion and now I will leave, much to everyone's joy I am sure...... No one here has to have my approval, that's never what it was about. I was just asking builders to think twice before picking up the grinder, torch or file. It was taken as a "me against you" type thing, in other words taken the wrong way. Enjoy making frames unrecognizable, and I will keep collecting sweet vintage bikes.
I've spoken my opinion and now I will leave, much to everyone's joy I am sure...... No one here has to have my approval, that's never what it was about. I was just asking builders to think twice before picking up the grinder, torch or file. It was taken as a "me against you" type thing, in other words taken the wrong way. Enjoy making frames unrecognizable, and I will keep collecting sweet vintage bikes.
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