See, at 2mph, you're pushing really hard to get going. Oh, I guess it could charge a capacitor during acceleration, then release after 30 seconds or so.

There are simpler ways to do this, though. A ratchet on the front brake, for instance. A can of mace on the stem rigged to a pawl on the front wheel.

Hey, more on-topically, an electronic derailleur could lock out without the proper RFID code.

Also, instead of shifting gears, you could adjust for your own cadence — pedal at a certain rate and the derailleur keeps you pedaling at that rate whatever your speed. Ideally, it would shift only when your legs were in position.

I don't know. I think the only positive would be the multiple shifter locations and maybe the sequential shifting. But, I would hate for the batteries to die 20 miles from my destination in a hilly terrain. Unless it is powered with a hub generator. Then it might be good.

Come on people, do you really believe they'd build a system with a battery life of just a few hours? We're likely looking at more than a hundred hours of typical operation. Just like tyres need to be topped off regularly, you'd do the same to the battery.

I'm seeing this as a battery that needs to be replaced every few *years*, since it can be powered by its own use.

It's like integrated headsets, imho. Just more "improvements" the bicycle industry "thinks up" to keep us spending more and more money. Why not be the first to mount an electric motor where the cranks are, the shifter down by your feet to leave your hands free to work... the... clutch... Nevermind, that's a motorcycle:D,,,,BD

This is not something the bicycle industry has thought up. The first post in this thread is what I want to see in an electric shifting system, not stuff that I've read about. Clear and major improvements over what we have today, yet with only minor, or perhaps even negligible, drawbacks. Drawbacks that would diminish over time, as well.

Unlike integrated headsets, where the frame needs to be of a specific compatible design, an electric shifting system would be independent of all the other components.

Oh well, don't listen to me. I thiink Brifters weren't a needed improvement, lol. IMHO, they was made for people who can't ride one handed long enough to shift.;),,,,BD

I guess I don't agree with your analogy that the difference between current index shifting and e-shifting is the same as the difference between stirring a 5 speed gear box and F1 paddle shifting.

No one has yet to put forth any credible evidence that e-shifting is faster or more precise than index shifting.

It's probably faster mainly because you don't have the delay, albeit short, of depressing the shifter lever, whichever form it may be in.

And, properly designed, an electric derailer could be designed to initially overshift to get a quicker reaction, and then just as quickly stop and move back, as the chain is completing the transfer.

I will happily embrace electronic shifting AFTER a 'cruise control' device has been developed and fully tested. :-)

Well e-shifting is not going to accomplish any major improvements over what we have today because e-shifting still uses a deraileur shift system, and the limiting factor is the physics of a derailleur which will not be overcome by having a solenoid push the chain over to the next cog instead of having your finger push the chain over to the next cog.

Now, some sort of lightweight, minimal friction loss, constantly variable transmission would be a revolution, all the gears you want, one easy shift lever, etc. But we are nowhere near that, the only company that has even tried is Nuvinci (?sp) with a CVT hub that is very heavy and no where near as efficient as a der. tranny.

SR, please read my posts, instead of just replying without having read them first. I've outlined a number of areas where electric shifting could significantly improve shifting. Not just the actual moving of the chain from one sprocket to another, but also setup, noise, wear and other issues.

I have read your posts and you outline absolutely NO areas where e-shifting will improve shifting.

But you continue to ignore my contention that the limiting factor for speed, precision in shifting are the physical limitations of a deraileuer shifting system.

You have failed or refused to address how e-shifting will overcome the inherent physical limitations of a derailleur system.

My lowly 105 9spd system has never missed an upshift, very rarely missed a downshift. I never have to trim the fron tder even in the big/big and small/small combinations. Every shift is instantaneous at a cadence of 100+.

How is e-shifting going to improve on that?

The buttons need not be on the bike at all. When I upgraded the system I am currently prototyping I added Bluetooth for wireless links between the bicycle, rider, and optionally the ability for remote monitoring. The two shift buttons, one for up shifts and the other for down shifts, are mounted in the side of the gloves index finger so shifting is done with the thumb or parts of the bike like the brake lever. Another advantage of wireless shifting is the ability of a group leader to shift all the bikes in the team so they all accelerate at the same time. Bluetooth allows uploading of rider/bike data to any computer in the world connected to the internet in real time via any standard smart phone, which is also used as the bikes cycle computer.

I'm pretty sure he did read your post...he just disagrees.

IMO the real issue with electric shifting is theory versus reality.

In theory:

-Electric shifting could include integration with a cyclometer, a mini medical computer and a torque meter. By analyzing a rider's speed, stress levels, heart rate, wattage output and gear ratio, profiles could be created to improve a top athlete's time trial efforts, making shift point suggestions or even executing them electronically.

-Shifting could be performed by a coach via remote control.

-The same technology, dumbed down, could make for a consumer grade automatic transmission that actually benefits the rider and makes the most of their energy.

-Eliminating cable activation would resolve the majority of adjustment issues with current drivetrains.

-With an integrated power generation system, many, many other low-power electronic devices become applicable.


In reality:

-If eliminating the cables were a serious issue, acceptance of pneumatic and hydraulic shifting efforts would've been much larger. Anyone remember how well Shimano Airlines went over?

-Electronics don't work well when exposed to weather. The best cyclometers will only last a few years under poor conditions.

-The present state of shifting technology is still simple enough that most cyclists can understand and maintain it themselves if they desire to. Adding complication is only worthwhile if it performs better than present systems, not exactly the same or worse. We have yet to see this improvement in anything released so far.

-Human beings are capable of making a multitude of complicated calculations unconsciously and intuitively. They are just as capable of making "incorrect" decisions out of emotion or ignorance. Making shifting easier doesn't take the human element out that allows these errors.

-Even wireless cyclometers are subject to inaccuracy due to RF interference. Until wireless technology is as reliable as wired... "Can you shift me now?"

Propane tanks hold enough fuel for several meals, but how many BBQs have been ruined due to a surprise lack of fuel? Just like you can't tell how much is left looking at a propane tank, you can't tell how much is left looking at a battery. A tire on the other hand, is pretty easy to diagnose on being low on air, or a cable can be inspected visually.

I used this off the shelf product and a little programing to accomplish everything above.
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microc...%2cProductName

http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Im...00/30068-M.jpg

No need to eliminate cables allowing current products to be used. Shift adjustment is done using software. All the rider need do is select the adjust shift screen, select all or current gear, and use the up or down button to fine tune the entire shift range or a single gear. This would compensate for cable stretch or a worn cog.

If not properly sealed but well designed electronics will operate properly for years in the most adverse conditions. Look under the hood of a modern automobile. They stand up to the worst conditions imaginable , yet function properly for many years. NASA has two rovers traveling around the surface of Mars that should have quit a long time ago but are still functioning fine. Even the electronic ignition control module in my old 1974 Ford truck is alive and functioning fine.

You will see an improvement. Note your wish list above. All that and more is currently in development. Shifting is even simpler with only two buttons. Selection of the next higher or lower gear ratio is done by the microprocessors software and not the rider so they never need worry about which chain ring or cog is selected. They just select either the up or down button. I did program it to beep a warning to the rider when the system was going to shift to a different chain ring so the rider will allow it to shift properly.

With remote control and monitoring of an inexperienced rider a coach or riding partner can shift his bike for him consequently training that rider properly. A trainee could simply follow a trained rider with that rider shifting both bikes setting cadence and gear ratio for both. The coach can monitor both from anywhere in the world on an internet connected computer and even talk to both in real time.

Current wireless cycle computers use very low power transmitters meant to be only a couple of feet from the receiver suffer from interference. Bluetooth eliminates that problem using 2.4Ghz frequency hopping technology and work properly at ranges up to 300 feet. When the Smart phone is connected to the internet range is unlimited.

I have no doubt n4zou that it can be done and is currently being developed...but whether it is accepted by a cycling populace that is currently "fixed" in the stone ages of cycling remains to be seen...especially once the prices are publicized.

I'm guessing you'll see all the bikes and riders outfitted with this for the 2010 Tour de France. You will be able to connect to a web site and look at every riders stats in real time. Heart rate, body temp, watts, speed, cadence, GPS location and altitude, and ambient temperature and humidity. I have no idea if they will charge for access to that information or if you would need to obtain permission to access the information. if this information were available to other teams they would know the physical conditions of there competitors.

STI was made for racing. After losing several races because I couldn't shift out of the saddle I made the jump to them and don't ever want to go back. Makes climbing, and just cruising better also.

I guess the next logical step is making the top riders all wear house arrest anklets so we can also tell where they are in the off-season...

The 2 things I'd be concerned with(if I was remotely interested) is.....

1. What will the system use as a sensor so it knows what gear it is in and where the next gear is?I run a printing press that has sensors for double-sheet detection and misfeeds.The sensors are ALWAYS getting covered with paper dust and offset powder which makes the machine stop.It is a PITA because at least twice a day I have to clean the sensors off in order to make the press run.And this is in an envirnmentally controlled area.I could just imagine what it would be like out in the real world.You see how dirty your components get after a ride(even on sunny days).This new system might work in a "clean-room" but out in the dirty,dusty,muddy world that we ride in I think it's gonna be a major PITA because you're gonna have to stop and clean the sensors all the time.I ride in the winter time and the derailleur and gears get covered in crap.Would the new system be able to "see" through snow and ice?

2. I ride in the winter in Canada.Everybody knows that batteries DO NOT like the cold.The batteries in my light don't last nearly as long as in the summer.What good is a system that is limited by the environment in which it is to be used?
I think it is a question of trying to improve on something that already works.It will ONLY be good for people who can't figure out how to use gears.

It's as gimicky as a battery-powered tape measure!:)

The technology is there for everything except body temp, which is irrelevant, frankly, and watt output, which is not really possible to measure without interfering with the racing of the guy. They do give heart rate readings on telly occasionally, but not constantly, probably to avoid spying...

Where would that sensor go?:rolleyes:
Wouldn't want it under the tongue so.....................:eek:

That's what we really need is an electronic/automatic EPO doser. I hate all the work that goes into that...

Az